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Zombina and the Skeletones - "Nobody Likes You (When You're Dead)"


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#1 GandWuser

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 12:07 AM

Hello, I am GandWuser. Not Grand, Gand. Remember that.

Anyway, a couple months ago I came across the C3 through some charters who, though at the time were not affiliated with the group, both now have releases through it. Due to my interest, and also maybe some inadvertent peer pressure, I decided to start making customs. And what better way to make a first custom than to chart a song by an obscure horror punk band?

Anyway, here's what you can expect in it:

Done
Tempo map (Thanks Gigakoops)
Guitar has all difficulties charted, may need wrapping work
Bass has Expert and Hard fully charted
Drums has Expert charted
Keys and Pro Keys both have Expert charted
Vocals and Harmonies are (mostly) charted
All essential metadata is in place
Keys finger animations are done

Not Done/Needs Work
Most animations do not exist
Currently uses pre-made venue information
All charts but Guitar have no Overdrive
Medium Bass is finished but needs work on wrapping. Easy has not been charted.
This is the first time I have ever charted drums, so they may be spotty in some areas. No fills have been charted.
HARM3 is most likely really off, but is low in the mix and I cannot hear it too well

Here's the visualizer image.

Posted Image

http://www.mediafire...remw3fxvqmh4mfd

This ZIP includes RPP, RBA, RBPROJ, as well as several other files I don't know what they are used for and a copy of the audio for use with the REAPER file.

Please tell me what you think! If it doesn't work, let me know.
Suckers!

#2 Farottone

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 01:53 AM

I had a very quick look, this is what stands out:

1) The audio is wildly misaligned. I suppose it's just a matter of misalignment in Reaper because you can't play the song like that in game and I assume your CON is fine (I haven't had time to play it). It's off by 200ms, so if you tried the CON and it didn't seem like you were missing every single note, I suppose it's just a problem with the project your packaged and not the CON file.

2) Drums look clean, though kick notes are not very accurate. You're missing a fair amount. Plus I'm seeing a lot of cymbals charted but I'm not hearing them, it sounds like the main tempo is kept without much in term of open hi hat, ride, etc.

3) Guitar looks clean but there's more than a few things that don't seem right. I'm taking M14-16 as a reference: at 15.1.50 you're missing a mute note, you left the chord too long; 15.3.50 - 16.0.00, there are only 2 notes in the song, you charted 3, plus the first non mute note should be at 15.3.50; I'm not hearing the second chord at M17. This is just an example. Point is, what you hear is not always what you need to hit, so there's some disconnect there it seems. Also, remember to always leave a 1/16th space between the end of a sustain and the following note.

4) Vocals. Timing is off, by a lot (in average, 1/16th). It's not "not precise", it's really off. Usually it's off because new authors at first tend to author the consonant sound at the begining of the word, but in this case, yes, while you author that sound (don't, try to position the note when the first vocals sound starts, exceptions aside), you're also way off. It seems consistent, so it may be just a positioning problem, but at times the notes are earlier, and at times too late (again, considering the 1/16th gap). Also, don't have phrases finishin right where the next one starts, trim that leaving a bit of space at the beginning and at the end, and that's it.

This is what I spotted in a 5 minute run, there's surely more but I don't have time to go through it right now. Overall I think it's a very good first effort, it looks clean. However, the vocals are really not playable and that disconnect in the guitar chart must be addressed. If the audio is that misaligned in game too (but I really doubt it), that must be fixed before anything else obviously.

#3 GandWuser

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Posted October 13, 2013 - 11:54 PM

I had a very quick look, this is what stands out:

1) The audio is wildly misaligned. I suppose it's just a matter of misalignment in Reaper because you can't play the song like that in game and I assume your CON is fine (I haven't had time to play it). It's off by 200ms, so if you tried the CON and it didn't seem like you were missing every single note, I suppose it's just a problem with the project your packaged and not the CON file.

2) Drums look clean, though kick notes are not very accurate. You're missing a fair amount. Plus I'm seeing a lot of cymbals charted but I'm not hearing them, it sounds like the main tempo is kept without much in term of open hi hat, ride, etc.

3) Guitar looks clean but there's more than a few things that don't seem right. I'm taking M14-16 as a reference: at 15.1.50 you're missing a mute note, you left the chord too long; 15.3.50 - 16.0.00, there are only 2 notes in the song, you charted 3, plus the first non mute note should be at 15.3.50; I'm not hearing the second chord at M17. This is just an example. Point is, what you hear is not always what you need to hit, so there's some disconnect there it seems. Also, remember to always leave a 1/16th space between the end of a sustain and the following note.

4) Vocals. Timing is off, by a lot (in average, 1/16th). It's not "not precise", it's really off. Usually it's off because new authors at first tend to author the consonant sound at the begining of the word, but in this case, yes, while you author that sound (don't, try to position the note when the first vocals sound starts, exceptions aside), you're also way off. It seems consistent, so it may be just a positioning problem, but at times the notes are earlier, and at times too late (again, considering the 1/16th gap). Also, don't have phrases finishin right where the next one starts, trim that leaving a bit of space at the beginning and at the end, and that's it.

This is what I spotted in a 5 minute run, there's surely more but I don't have time to go through it right now. Overall I think it's a very good first effort, it looks clean. However, the vocals are really not playable and that disconnect in the guitar chart must be addressed. If the audio is that misaligned in game too (but I really doubt it), that must be fixed before anything else obviously.

Thanks for the feedback, it's pretty much what I am looking for. I'd like to know some more specifics though:

1. I have not actually gotten a chance to play the track myself, since I don't own an Xbox and I'm waiting to purchase a cheap second Wii so I don't mess up my normal one. When you say that it's off by 200 ms, does that mean I have to move the audio track to the left or to the right?

2. Can you give some examples of some missed kicks? I wasn't sure whether the cymbals were being hit to be honest, since the mix is a bit poor, I just charted them as a precaution. Even though I think I know what you are talking about, can you give some examples of those too?

3. I will fix what you've reported. Are there any other major discrepancies that you can see?

4. I think What happened was that I was trying to get it to play in ReaSynth, which plays the notes a bit earlier than they come. I can fix that. As for vocal sounds, do I just chart the vowel sound, or are hard consonants such as "d" allowed as well? What about drawn out soft consonants?
Suckers!

#4 Nightmare Lyra

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 12:38 AM

4. I think What happened was that I was trying to get it to play in ReaSynth, which plays the notes a bit earlier than they come.


Correct me if I am wrong on this, but I don't think it's supposed to do that, it might mean the song is off-sync in the project as well

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#5 GandWuser

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 01:07 AM

4. I think What happened was that I was trying to get it to play in ReaSynth, which plays the notes a bit earlier than they come.


Correct me if I am wrong on this, but I don't think it's supposed to do that, it might mean the song is off-sync in the project as well

No what I mean is that the notes in ReaSynth would start 1/16th earlier than the notes actually transcribed would be. I at least attempted to try to line up the vocal notes with the audio. This would even happen when I played it at 25% speed.

Do you see anything else besides what was mentioned that could be fixed?
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#6 Farottone

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 09:42 AM

1. I have not actually gotten a chance to play the track myself, since I don't own an Xbox and I'm waiting to purchase a cheap second Wii so I don't mess up my normal one.


I'm gonna answer to the other points later, but you really need to be able to test your songs. There's much you can't get out of Reaper and so much that's gonna be difficult to test with Reaper alone that you can't possibly author "blind".

#7 Nightmare Lyra

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 12:07 PM

1. I have not actually gotten a chance to play the track myself, since I don't own an Xbox and I'm waiting to purchase a cheap second Wii so I don't mess up my normal one.


I'm gonna answer to the other points later, but you really need to be able to test your songs. There's much you can't get out of Reaper and so much that's gonna be difficult to test with Reaper alone that you can't possibly author "blind".


I disagree, I have been authoring blindly for the RBN for a while and as long as playtesters have tested it in-game then everything has been fine and dandy.

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#8 Farottone

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 12:28 PM

I disagree, I have been authoring blindly for the RBN for a while and as long as playtesters have tested it in-game then everything has been fine and dandy.


Shifting the burden to the playtersters is something we definitely don't want to do. The very last thing we want is having authors putting a song through PT without even having made sure it actually works in game. And to pre-empt the discussion, this is not a matter of agreement, it's how things are done: authors have to make sure their songs actually work in game.

#9 GandWuser

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 12:38 PM

Well until I can get that second Wii, I may as well request this thread locked for the time being. I'd still like to finish the job I started, but if not being able to play test it myself is going to prevent me, it's not even worth discussing.
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#10 Farottone

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 01:00 PM

Well until I can get that second Wii, I may as well request this thread locked for the time being. I'd still like to finish the job I started, but if not being able to play test it myself is going to prevent me, it's not even worth discussing.


It is worth working on it as long as you can, the problem comes with having the song playtested and released, which is not your next step. Your next step is still working on your song and learning, and that can be accomplished in Reaper alone. But if you want, as you said, try to eventually release your work, you're gonna need something to test it on before it reaches playtesters. ;) Most issues can be caught in Reaper, which is how we normally check out songs anyway.

#11 GandWuser

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 11:04 PM

Well until I can get that second Wii, I may as well request this thread locked for the time being. I'd still like to finish the job I started, but if not being able to play test it myself is going to prevent me, it's not even worth discussing.


It is worth working on it as long as you can, the problem comes with having the song playtested and released, which is not your next step. Your next step is still working on your song and learning, and that can be accomplished in Reaper alone. But if you want, as you said, try to eventually release your work, you're gonna need something to test it on before it reaches playtesters. ;) Most issues can be caught in Reaper, which is how we normally check out songs anyway.

Alright then. I do have nearly $200 to Amazon.com, so I should be able to get the right equipment some time soon. In the meantime, do you think you could tell me any other issues you see with the chart so I can fix them?
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#12 Farottone

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 11:17 PM

Alright then. I do have nearly $200 to Amazon.com, so I should be able to get the right equipment some time soon. In the meantime, do you think you could tell me any other issues you see with the chart so I can fix them?


I actually wanted to give you some specific examples but I need to finish a song that's time sensitive. Give me a couple of days tops and I'll get back to you with info.

#13 GandWuser

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Posted October 14, 2013 - 11:34 PM

Alright then. I do have nearly $200 to Amazon.com, so I should be able to get the right equipment some time soon. In the meantime, do you think you could tell me any other issues you see with the chart so I can fix them?


I actually wanted to give you some specific examples but I need to finish a song that's time sensitive. Give me a couple of days tops and I'll get back to you with info.

That's fine. Since I already have v1 out, I'll use this time to make animations and things that don't have to do with reductions, since I want to get the expert charts top-notch before reducing.
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#14 Farottone

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Posted October 24, 2013 - 11:00 PM

Alright, for those notes (very sorry for the delay)...

1) here you can see how far off is your audio file. I linked the peak to the snare hit, the red line is the distance.
Posted Image

2) You have the basic initial drums pattern slightly wrong: you're missing a snare at the 2 of measures 5, 7, 9 (and probably further similar measures).

3) Even after the audio has been realigned, vocals are off quite a bit, though consistently. This is an example, I've put the cursor where the note should start, and you can see where yours start, very early:
Posted Image

Take a look at those and let me know if you understand the issues.

#15 GandWuser

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Posted October 25, 2013 - 01:04 AM

I understand numbers 1 and 3. I actually went over the vocal chart last night and trimmed about 90+% of the tubes... it was messier than I thought, for sure. I'm not sure what you mean by the "2 of the measures". Do you mean like 5.2, 7.2, etc?

I may also send you the version of the chart that I have right now, with the fixes put on. Do you think that would be ok? Also, do you know who could tell me if the pro keys chart is right and who could fix the third harmony part since I personally know it is very off?
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#16 Farottone

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Posted October 25, 2013 - 09:09 AM

I understand numbers 1 and 3. I actually went over the vocal chart last night and trimmed about 90+% of the tubes... it was messier than I thought, for sure. I'm not sure what you mean by the "2 of the measures". Do you mean like 5.2, 7.2, etc?


Exactly right.

I may also send you the version of the chart that I have right now, with the fixes put on. Do you think that would be ok? Also, do you know who could tell me if the pro keys chart is right and who could fix the third harmony part since I personally know it is very off?


Send me your updated project and we'll see the shape it's in. If it's in farily good shape, I can take a look at those myself or bribe somebody here to take a look at those parts. ;)

#17 GandWuser

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Posted October 26, 2013 - 01:18 AM

I may also send you the version of the chart that I have right now, with the fixes put on. Do you think that would be ok? Also, do you know who could tell me if the pro keys chart is right and who could fix the third harmony part since I personally know it is very off?


Send me your updated project and we'll see the shape it's in. If it's in farily good shape, I can take a look at those myself or bribe somebody here to take a look at those parts. ;)

Great. I'll send it to you tonight. There's not a whole lot changed besides the vocal charts and the addition of overdrive sections, but I'd like to have it pointed out where more mistakes on the charts are so I can finally finish up with the reductions. I swear it's the only part I have left and it's taking me the longest since I need to get the expert charts perfect first!
Suckers!




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