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June 14, 2013 - GnR pack, Primus, ELO, Keane pack


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#21 TrojanNemo

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 04:25 PM

I wish nyx and ghtorb3 agreed with #2...I was so upset when the trumpet solo didn't get charted to the keys on Old Time Rock & Roll...

#22 Nyxyxylyth

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 04:27 PM

I wish nyx and ghtorb3 agreed with #2...I was so upset when the trumpet solo didn't get charted to the keys on Old Time Rock & Roll...

NOT A TRUMPET

#23 TrojanNemo

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 06:13 PM

Does it matter what instrument it is? Point is the second most famous part of that song is not charted and that makes me sad.

#24 StackOverflow0x

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Posted June 16, 2013 - 07:33 PM

I did it anyways. Here is this week's release converted for Wii, to the best of my ability.
http://www.mediafire... ... _Jun14.rar

Easy to take files and pack them in the established structure. User has to update paths since they vary. There probably won't be any animations or song preview either.

#25 LPfan13

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Posted June 17, 2013 - 10:50 AM

if there is a use your illusion II then my 3 would be
civil war
yesterdays
knocking on heaven's door

and big thanks for november rain it was awesome to play it

#26 WheelofKa19

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Posted June 17, 2013 - 04:18 PM

Live and Let Die was awesome on Keys and Vox.
Then a few hours later Grosse Point Blank came on at the convenience store part with that song.
Perfect.

"Who are you? What are you doing here? Where do you live?
How long have you worked here? Where's your manager?
Where does he live?

Ok, what's done is done."
People do things. It's a fact.

#27 WolfgangJT

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Posted June 17, 2013 - 08:34 PM

OK, just played all of the GnR stuff on guitar (expert)..only have one issue on Live and Let Die that could use a tweak up. It seems in the three note solo parts right after "Say Live and Let Die"is said the second time, it goes..3 notes, 3 notes, 2 notes..like duh, duh, duh...duh, duh, duh....duh, duh. It actually should be three notes in all three, instead of just two ending it.

http://rockby.net/en... ... multitrack

^here's an instument tab on the song, in which you can follow multi-track each instrument as it plays a midi version of the instruments (it has Slash's part labeled). Shows it as three sections of 3 notes each as I am mentioning.

Any chance that could be fixed?

IMO, the part would look right if it were....yellow, blue, orange...red, yellow, blue...yellow, red, green (seems the chart missed the yellow note). Hope that helps.

#28 espher

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Posted June 17, 2013 - 09:30 PM

I've always known it to be a 3-3-2, so I went back and gave it another listen (as well as the McCartney version, in case someone has their wires crossed), and the guitar part is definitely a 3-3-2 through most of the song -- however, in the outro, I will cede that it seems to be more of a 3-3-3 (though I think the third note is not on lead).

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#29 Farottone

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Posted June 17, 2013 - 10:49 PM

I don't really hear that to be honest. Maybe some fret noise, but the dynamic of those sections to me is clearly 3-3-2 and even if there's some noise, I don't think authoring it would be realistic.

#30 WolfgangJT

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 02:31 AM



^Check this vid @ 1:08 - 1:11. Found good footage from a GnR concert (Argentina 1992)...vid clearly shows Slash strumming it as 3-3-3 after the 1st verse (focused directly on him right under the guitar). :dance: Kinda hard to deny seeing his hand move 3-3-3 strums, so think it solidifies which it actually is. Hope it helps in clarifying, at least for the realistic strum in the GnR cover.

Hopefully you guys may consider a tweak up through the song in the sections that have it, since it is a repeating section throughout the song. Great work though on these...having a blast playing them. :excited:

#31 galexio

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 06:03 AM

I, too, can confirm this as well. Took a bit of listening over and over, but it's there.
The first half of hook is played on the guitar as F# G# A, C# D# E, B A F#.
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#32 espher

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 11:58 AM

As much as I can appreciate the "please look at this live video" angle, guys, you need to keep in mind it does not always apply. There are several examples of existing tracks in our catalogue (which we have discussed/debated) where official tabulature and/or recorded live video shows a certain pattern being played that just isn't in the original recording.

I'm not saying that is the case here, but I just want to stress that we can't take videos as gospel truth, especially for parts that are in dispute where audio is concerned (especially 'what instrument plays what' or ghost note type stuff), so please exercise suitable discretion when bringing video evidence to the table. :P

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#33 Farottone

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 12:23 PM



^Check this vid @ 1:08 - 1:11. Found good footage from a GnR concert (Argentina 1992)...vid clearly shows Slash strumming it as 3-3-3 after the 1st verse (focused directly on him right under the guitar). :dance: Kinda hard to deny seeing his hand move 3-3-3 strums, so think it solidifies which it actually is.


To be honest, that actually convinces me the chart is accurate. The video looks different than the chart but also *sounds* different. I can clearly hear the third note here, not in the studio version.

In addition to what Espher said (actually I'm more radical: for me videos are almost always useless in terms of understanding *exactly* what goes on in a studio version), it's also important to note that charts must reflect the dynamic of a song. In this case, the dynamic is clearly 3-3-2. If there are actually some notes that you can only hear after you've listened to the specific section many times and only because your attention was drawn to that section, charting it will make the part look off.

#34 WolfgangJT

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 05:55 PM

I'll still stand behind my assessment. Seeing Slash strumming it makes more sense...why would he add or extra strum a note there for "live performance"? I personally have always heard that note...and it seems you can hear it in about every live performance of GnR in that era as well, not just that one vid...that vid was mainly for visual to show him strumming it.

Also, here is a karaoke remake of Paul McCartney's version...it's a multi-track setting where you can cut it to only the electric guitar (all other instuments out)...and it also does 3-3-3:
http://www.karaoke-v... ... t-die.html

..and a midi based on McCartney's...also clearly distinguishable 3-3-3.
http://midi.homemusi... ... et_die.mid

And sheet music (last 3 lines)...also shows 3-3-3 as the pattern:
http://www.hamienet.... ... 36-4-1.png

And multi-instument tab (Overdriven guitar - Slash @ measures 13 & 14..also showing 3-3-3):
http://www.songsterr... ... b-s22292t5

Why would these all have 3-3-3 if it's supposed to be 3-3-2..just not seeing that as being the case. That'd seriously be quite a few versions doing the the exact same "wrong" way that's also seen in a live performance of the actual guy. Could happen I suppose, but I'm having a hard time finding a way to believe it...

Either way, guess it's your choice if you'd like to consider it or not...thanks anyways for listening.

#35 espher

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 06:23 PM

I was pretty sure when I listened to the original last night it was a 3-3-2. You guys are gonna make me listen again when I get home now. :P

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#36 WolfgangJT

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 06:28 PM

Lol..too bad we couldn't get this for free...though it's technically a professional cover of the GnR version, it's multi-tracked and sounds identical to the recorded GnR one:
http://www.songgalax... ... G3872.html

That'd help, but I don't think it's worth paying 9 pounds to get it. lol.

#37 TrojanNemo

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 06:32 PM

We've paid way more than that for stems...the point is doing a cover of something this classic doesnt typically go well with players.

#38 WolfgangJT

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 06:35 PM

Nah, I wouldn't want a cover either, not on GnR definitely...to me, it'd be more useful on knowing what the charting does when you could fully single out the guitar sound. Then just use the sound of the real song.

#39 espher

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Posted June 18, 2013 - 10:30 PM

Okay, I don't think I drove this point home hard enough:

You can provide as many covers, tabs, live videos, alternate arrangements, or whatever as you want to show us "how the song is played", but as we've encountered in SEVERAL songs we've authored and released, this does NOT NECESSARILY reflect the actual audible component of the original version of the mix we're using to record.

Whether or not it does in this case is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make here, which is that showering us in videos, .pdf files, .jpgs from a GIS, .mid recordings, and renditions of the song by another artist is not necessarily a compelling argument, and when someone says "I don't/can't hear it in the original", showering us with more not-original material does not help make a convincing case.

For fun, because why not:

Guns N' Roses - Live and Let Die
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=0m43s - Definitely 3-3-2
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=0m50s - You could make an argument, but it's not distinct to me, and doesn't sound like it's clear on the dominant audible guitar part. I can hear it if I'm seeking it.
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=1m34s - Same as 0:50
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=1m40s - Tougher to hear, but same argument as 0:50
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=2m27s - Same as 0:50
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=2m33s - Same as 0:50
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=2m40s - Here you definitely can convince me of a 3-3-3
https://www.youtube....PiDLdH4#t=2m45s - Same as 2:40

Paul McCartney & Wings - Live and Let Die
https://www.youtube....AIWe3uE#t=0m47s - Definitely 3-3-2, as the "3" is on wind (maybe?)
https://www.youtube....AIWe3uE#t=0m53s - Same as 0:47.
https://www.youtube....AIWe3uE#t=1m37s - Same as 0:47.
https://www.youtube....AIWe3uE#t=1m43s - Same as 0:47.
https://www.youtube....AIWe3uE#t=2m34s - Same as 0:47
https://www.youtube....AIWe3uE#t=2m40s - Guitar goes for, well, not the riff at after the 3-3.
For the rest of the song the guitar is playing away from the riff, which is picked up by different instruments.

Make a compelling case for those clips.

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#40 WolfgangJT

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Posted June 19, 2013 - 02:18 AM

OK, just did the smarter thing to see if I could pull apart the guitar from the actual song...used Audacity with some inverting and equalization and got this (warning, can be a bit tingy):
http://www.mediafire...8zhj5ujiqlm65li

So this actually gets interesting this way....it does seem like in the main parts of the studio version, it is indeed a 3-3-2 as you guys mentioned, with the second note of the 2 having a small hold (The 3rd note I was noticing appears to possibly be in the horn and other instrument sections of the background). Seems that way throughout the song...until the very ending, in which you can hear in the last 2 or so runs, it does end up doing a 3-3-3 to end the song.

Take a listen and see if you guys get the same from that. This one this time is from the actual song...not a cover, not live...the album version just sound edited to try to pinpoint more on the guitar frequencies. That should give the most accurate way without actually having the true multitracks. Sorry if I upset anyone...just trying to help in case it did need anything, as it is slightly debatable how it is played.




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