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Adjusting tempo map when removing the beginning of a custom


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#1 Shroud

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Posted August 22, 2020 - 09:01 AM

Hi all,

I normally don't have much problems doing my tempo maps, but this time I have a specific issue.

I am trying to remove the beginning part of a custom. It's actually many minutes, and include some signature time changes.

I opened up everything in Reaper, deleted those first few minutes and shifted everything back to left, but then all tempo markers adjusted themselves to incorrect values. So I tried leaving the first tempo marker at the beginning and it seemed to work, however when I test it in RBN preview or in Nemo's Cplayer, it seems now the whole song is slightly late. In addition, that first tempo marker had a different time signature (5/8) that I can't seem to change without all the rest of the markers readjust (I think it might work if I insert the missing 3/8 but how?).

I know that many would suggest to scrap the tempo map and redo it manually, but it's a 10 minute prog song with time signature changes, so before doing that, I would rather try to fix the beginning or redo the whole removal procedure.

What would then be the best practice for removing the first section of a custom?

#2 bsbloom

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Posted August 23, 2020 - 08:29 AM

Fuji taught me this trick: 

1.Highlight the entire part of the custom that you want to save, so everything but the beginning that you are scrapping.

2. Use the Reaper function, Export Project MIDI, but, under consolidate time, change the entire project to time selection only.

3.  Start a new project.

4.  Put in the count-in tempo that you want, so the first three measures are correct.

5.  Import that MIDI starting at 3.1.  That will automatically carry over the tempo mapping from your highlighted section.

6.  Restore each track from the custom by copying and pasting, from either the imported MIDI tracks, or from your other version.  Done.



#3 Shroud

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Posted August 23, 2020 - 11:28 AM

Mmm... interesting! Exporting never crossed my mind as a possibility. I will try this out, thanks!

#4 Shroud

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Posted August 24, 2020 - 04:31 AM

Seemed much easier than editing!

Just a small unexpected complication from the fact that I also wanted to remove the ending (I didn't mention it because it didn't cause me problems before). It might be a Reaper bug or "feature" but when I exported my selection, all tracks exported exactly as intended i e. only the selected interval, except the tempo map which exported from the beginning of the time selection to the end of the whole song (instead of the end of the time selection).

It wouldn't be much of a problem, if it wasn't for the fact that there were 20 minutes worth of tempo markers to delete manually one by one. Fortunately I found out that the Reaper project file is in fact a text file that can be edited using any text editor, it was very easy to find the tempo markers and delete a thousand of them at once :)

With your method it was really easy to also add two initial measures in 5/4 with appropriate count-ins.

The tempo map of the resulting song seems perfect in RBN preview and in CPlayer, tonight I'll try in game.

#5 cleverest

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Posted August 24, 2020 - 09:53 PM

Fuji taught me this trick: 

1.Highlight the entire part of the custom that you want to save, so everything but the beginning that you are scrapping.

2. Use the Reaper function, Export Project MIDI, but, under consolidate time, change the entire project to time selection only.

3.  Start a new project.

4.  Put in the count-in tempo that you want, so the first three measures are correct.

5.  Import that MIDI starting at 3.1.  That will automatically carry over the tempo mapping from your highlighted section.

6.  Restore each track from the custom by copying and pasting, from either the imported MIDI tracks, or from your other version.  Done.

That's awesome, thanks for sharing that! I have no idea how to do more than 4/4 time-signature tempo-mapping anyways, but I can see this coming in handy anyways for anything suitably long/complex.



#6 TrojanNemo

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Posted August 25, 2020 - 02:26 AM

I'm glad to learn someone is still using cPlayer :)



#7 cleverest

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Posted August 25, 2020 - 04:52 AM

I just tried Cplayer...pretty cool stuff...one nifty thing is that you can load all the customs you've made into a playlist and on the top right it tells you the total playing time. :-)  Right now I have just a hair over 40min of customs of my own creation...but I've only released 2 of those 8 songs thus far)



#8 Shroud

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Posted August 25, 2020 - 05:09 AM

I'm glad to learn someone is still using cPlayer :)


Of course!

It's a great way to quickly check a custom's chart to gauge the general quality. In fact, having recently caught a few very bad charts, after going through converting them to PS3 and then having to remove them, I think I should use cPlayer more often to check customs in advance.

Thanks one more time for making all the useful tools!

#9 Spindoctor

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Posted August 25, 2020 - 07:00 AM

I'm glad to learn someone is still using cPlayer :)

I use it on every custom I make  :)


Links to all songs are in the Customs database.

 

Rock with the Doc at c3Universe

 

"Music can change the world because it can change people"  

Bono


#10 FujiSkunk

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Posted August 26, 2020 - 03:16 AM

I use it on every custom I make  :)

I use it to preview new customs, so it stays warm on my hard drive.



#11 Spike1958

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Posted September 18, 2020 - 06:01 PM

Of course!

It's a great way to quickly check a custom's chart to gauge the general quality. In fact, having recently caught a few very bad charts, after going through converting them to PS3 and then having to remove them, I think I should use cPlayer more often to check customs in advance.

Thanks one more time for making all the useful tools!

So does CPlayer show you that a song has the PS3 loop issue? If so, I will run all my Customs d/l through that first before I put them on the PS3 and fix it before it gets to the playing stage



#12 Shroud

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Posted September 18, 2020 - 07:46 PM

So does CPlayer show you that a song has the PS3 loop issue?


No it cannot show that problem.

I used to think that one possibility to catch customs that loop is to check them with the CON Tools (Song Analyzer): most of the times loop-ending customs will show audio length smaller than midi length and also than song length in dta. But that's not always the case, as I found some exceptions that didn't loop after all.




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