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Harmony / Lead Crossover

harmony lead vocal

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#1 Guido

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Posted June 17, 2020 - 04:26 PM

I have a song where the harmony part crosses over the lead part.

ie. Lead sings .. then harmony sings, but before the harmony has finished the lead begins again.

So I have Part Vocals and Harm1 essentially with a duplicate note map. I have authored Harm2 for the harmony part but I need to extend the phrase markers in Harm 1 to cover the Harm 2 notes... but if I do this for the scenario mentioned, clearly the Phrase Markers between the two will clash....

How do I get around that...?
Thanks in advance.


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#2 BornGamerRob

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 01:39 AM

I have a song where the harmony part crosses over the lead part.

ie. Lead sings .. then harmony sings, but before the harmony has finished the lead begins again.

So I have Part Vocals and Harm1 essentially with a duplicate note map. I have authored Harm2 for the harmony part but I need to extend the phrase markers in Harm 1 to cover the Harm 2 notes... but if I do this for the scenario mentioned, clearly the Phrase Markers between the two will clash....

How do I get around that...?
Thanks in advance.

You'll never overlap phrase markers. You'll have to run the beginning phrase of HARM 1 so it covers the HARM 2 phrase, or drag the next phrase backward so it covers it. Just butt it up against the next phrase marker, but NEVER overlap them.

 

It was never clear which method was the "right" way to do it, so I'd love someone to chime in on that one. I've always compiled it with the method I described above without any fallout.


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#3 Shroud

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 06:30 AM

I have a song where the harmony part crosses over the lead part.

ie. Lead sings .. then harmony sings, but before the harmony has finished the lead begins again.

So I have Part Vocals and Harm1 essentially with a duplicate note map. I have authored Harm2 for the harmony part but I need to extend the phrase markers in Harm 1 to cover the Harm 2 notes... but if I do this for the scenario mentioned, clearly the Phrase Markers between the two will clash....

How do I get around that...?
Thanks in advance.

 

Yes this is annoying to handle... I am not 100% sure if I understand your case, but I had problems with two vocal parts "taking turns" but effectively the other vocal always starting just a little before the previous ends. I am afraid you have to make some compromise in order not to break the Magma rules.

 

In my opinion the best compromise is to sacrifice the consistency of the harmonies phrases. Well at least for me it's not a big deal, if some harmonies are split between two phrases in the middle of a sentence just to fit within the phrases of the main vocals.

 

When doing my first custom, I was instead trying just to have long phrases to cover everything, but I discovered that the game would at some point truncate the lyrics, so we have to avoid too long phrases.

 

Much more difficult is the case when you have harmonies comprised of single long notes that you cannot split...



#4 LARG

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 06:43 AM

I recommend charting your vocal phrases based on the Harm1 part. Just make sure that the capitalization for harm2 is consistent with where its phrases should be, and not the in-game location of the marker.

Example:
104541595_609176709692049_36422377793373

If a note goes on so long that it extends into another phrase, then it should be completely covered by both phrases. To do this, extend your phrases so that one ends right as the other begins. Alternatively, create one long phrase and split it using the S key. Again, the phrase markers should be placed based on Harm1's phrases. 

In game example:
82943153_281614599914762_918358783989934


Example in REAPER:
104760106_272180643840119_41398150711810
 



#5 Guido

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 08:10 AM

OK - so I have butted the phrase markers up to encompass the Harm2 notes in Harm1... however I am getting some bizarre errors...

which I am not convinced is related to the original enquiry on this thread, but figured I would continue here in the interests of keeping all in one place...

 

https://imgur.com/M8wK4e3

 

(...wasnt able to embed the image file hence using Imgur link above... :( )


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#6 Guido

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 01:00 PM

I have remedied this.... the error was in fact in the subsequent measure ie. 120.1.0.. perhaps on account of the 'new' measure I introduced at the beginning

(to account for the intro starting too early ie. prior to measure 3.1.0, given the relative high BPM of the song.... ) so now sorted!

Watch this space...


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#7 Atruejedi

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 09:25 PM

Hi Guido. I received your PM but have been very busy, so I'm gonna reply here, since you seem to have already gotten your answers, I hope!

 

My recollection of your question was overlapping vocal parts when the lead singer is layered. I might be misremembering! Here is what I recently did for TomGuy's update of Twin Size Mattress. Jump ahead to 1:42 in the song:

 

 

As you can see, I just slapped the later phrase to HARM2, and once that phrases is over, it jumps back to HARM1. It happens again at 1:10 but it's a bit more complex/layered...

 

I hope this helps. It's all a stylistic choice.


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#8 Guido

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Posted June 19, 2020 - 06:27 AM

Thanks for your comments one and all.
Jedi, that is a groovy background animation sequence... Which option is that , guess it's a lighting event...?

Also, having completed the harmonies, to i noticed when testing that although harmony is selected for play in-game, you can still sing the lead part as well and the game responds with the message 'messy/strong/awesome' etc.
... Im guessing that is not correct.. Should be comparing the vocal input to the selected part only, yeah?
In which case not sure what i have done.

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