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#1 WarMarioDragon

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Posted May 12, 2020 - 09:00 PM

Hi all,

More questions this time around

1. When pros are charted do people go for realism? I want to take a swing at it but not sure how people are with fake pro, unless there's a way to obtain a real play sheet of sorts.

2. Is it possible to request a more experienced charter to take a look a work that I'm really struggling in? I feel as if I'm overwhelmed with the amount of tempo mapping required on my "Universe" by Scars on Boardway and have very little motivation to go back to it.

3. There certain songs that I can't find the BPM for, so for those cases what's the best option for locating it? I generally use a website that gives me a base, but it doesn't seem to work all the time (Hint: Universe).

4. Similar to the question on top, if a song's lyrics can not be found and in my case not in English or Spanish but Japanese what's the best approach?

5. (Rant) I don't see much of a reason to NOT use all of the instruments other than the fact it doesn't have one and maybe I guess it being really difficult to chart due to conflicting sounds, tempo, language, etc. Other than those cases, would it rude of me to ask why it doesn't have said instrument? Depending on the song and need I would like to help.

6. Is there some sort of master list for compatible instruments for Rock band 3? Like the ones used with the midi adapter.

Thank you for your time.

Older questions (already answered)

1. When I ask for permission to use someone else's work (MIDI, etc.) on this site, how long should one wait before posting the song that contains any amount of work from them?

2. Is it considered upcycling if I use someone else's chart with my editing to fit a similar song?

3. Does anyone know if Mintorment (CloneHero charter) doesn't mind having his work turned into a full band?

4. Is it possible to request certain instruments of a song to be created?

5. If I have more questions later on would I make a new post or update/bump this thread?


Edited by WarMarioDragon, June 17, 2020 - 10:08 PM.


#2 chaosjaye

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Posted May 13, 2020 - 01:11 AM

1..a month

2 post giving credit where credit is due.

3 message mintorment and see if he answers. go check the post put up a week ago about people requesting thier work not posted. do that first might save rest of the steps actually.

4 its possible..might take awhile for someone to jump on it. or go read how to do it. ruby did a post 2 days ago simplifing it alot.

http://customscreato...charting-video/.

5. stick with one post and  bump it every couple weeks.

gl and happy charting:)



#3 FujiSkunk

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Posted May 14, 2020 - 08:05 PM

chaosjaye covered everything.  Welcome aboard and happy charting!



#4 WarMarioDragon

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Posted June 17, 2020 - 10:14 PM

Updated- New Questions sorry if this is a bump I'm not sure how to bump it without replying.



#5 Shroud

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Posted June 18, 2020 - 07:06 AM

Hi all,

More questions this time around

1. When pros are charted do people go for realism? I want to take a swing at it but not sure how people are with fake pro, unless there's a way to obtain a real play sheet of sorts.

2. Is it possible to request a more experienced charter to take a look a work that I'm really struggling in? I feel as if I'm overwhelmed with the amount of tempo mapping required on my "Universe" by Scars on Boardway and have very little motivation to go back to it.

3. There certain songs that I can't find the BPM for, so for those cases what's the best option for locating it? I generally use a website that gives me a base, but it doesn't seem to work all the time (Hint: Universe).

4. Similar to the question on top, if a song's lyrics can not be found and in my case not in English or Spanish but Japanese what's the best approach?

5. (Rant) I don't see much of a reason to NOT use all of the instruments other than the fact it doesn't have one and maybe I guess it being really difficult to chart due to conflicting sounds, tempo, language, etc. Other than those cases, would it rude of me to ask why it doesn't have said instrument? Depending on the song and need I would like to help.

6. Is there some sort of master list for compatible instruments for Rock band 3? Like the ones used with the midi adapter.

Thank you for your time.

Older questions (already answered)

1. When I ask for permission to use someone else's work (MIDI, etc.) on this site, how long should one wait before posting the song that contains any amount of work from them?

2. Is it considered upcycling if I use someone else's chart with my editing to fit a similar song?

3. Does anyone know if Mintorment (CloneHero charter) doesn't mind having his work turned into a full band?

4. Is it possible to request certain instruments of a song to be created?

5. If I have more questions later on would I make a new post or update/bump this thread?

 

I speak only from my little 5-customs experience...

 

1. I have charted Pro Drums and Pro Keys, but never Pro Guitar and Pro Bass. All Pro instruments require compromises: in Pro Keys you must fit all notes in a small range, in Pro Drums you can't use a hihat pedal, and Pro Guitar/Bass have limited frets and don't support bending and other techniques. Beyond the obvious limitations, I think you should strive for maximum realism. But keep your sanity while doing it! :) It's not that difficult to find TAB transcriptions for guitar, less easy to find accurate piano transcriptions but still possible. And remember that many songs can be played effectively with different chord shapes, so nailing exactly the notes of a Cmaj7 chord on piano or guitar chord is not important, but nailing the Cmaj7 chord itself IS important.

 

2. Why not?

 

3. You don't necessarily "find" the BPM written somewhere, you figure it out roughly by using the "TAP" button in Reaper, and then the accurate value will come up by itself when doing tempo mapping.

 

4. Ouch... :D I'm afraid if it's not a language you understand yourself, you should probably ask a native speaker to help you. In case it's Japanese, find a forum about learning Japanese language, and ask them to help you.

 

5. Well just don't ask rudely! To be honest, it bothers me too when there are very well done customs, but with missing pitched vocals or pro keys. Most authors who skip instruments say they aren't able to chart them, but my personal opinion is that the difficulty of charting those is generally overestimated. On the other hand, other authors are simply focusing on charting what THEY want to play, and if they all they want to play is 5-lane guitar, they'll make customs with that instrument only. If I were interested in adding missing instruments, I would focus on customs which are missing ONE of them, because I see no reason why the original author wouldn't be happy that someone makes their custom complete with what they were unable to do (unless they are already planning to do it themselves). OTOH, if I had to add more than 1-2 instruments, I'd rather chart a new version of that song from scratch.

 

6. I've tried to search this myself but didn't find one...



#6 FujiSkunk

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Posted June 19, 2020 - 05:48 AM

1. Generally speaking, yes.  As Shroud mentioned, pro charting almost always requires a little fudging anyway (no left-hand on the keyboard, no string bends on the guitar, only three toms on the drums and so on), but other than those necessary compromises, the pro instruments should be as realistic as possible.  At the bare minimum, the rhythms should be accurate, toms and cymbals on pro drums should align with where toms and cymbals are heard in the song (even if they are different toms or cymbals), and pitches played on pro keys and pro strongs should match pitches heard heard in the song (if perhaps in a different octave).

 

Some charters have copied 5-lane keys to pro keys for the sake of having "fake" pro keys, but this is a compromise to make Magma happy and not really something people are doing just to pull a fast one.  In reality those charters opted not to chart pro keys at all.

 

2. Of course.  Charters are always welcome to ask for help here.  Sometimes it seems the old vets are quick to bite the heads off newbies, but really that's only when someone asks a basic question covered by the required reading.  If you've done your homework and you still find yourself stuck, people will be happy to lend a hand.

 

3. Only rarely does a song have a single, steady BPM, and it almost never happens on songs released before 1990.  If you're convinced your song has a single BPM through-out, Shroud's suggestion of using REAPER's "tap" feature will help, but really you should be prepared to tempo-map your songs to ensure you really do have all the beats properly aligned.

 

4. What Shroud said.  We do have a lot of different language speakers here, even one or two that have dabbled in Japanese, but I don't know that we have any actual native Japanese speakers. Other forums can help.

 

5. First and foremost, I and most authors agree with you.  If the original song has a part, you should be able to play it!  However, there are several reasons why a particular submission is missing instruments.  Keys are especially notorious for being buried in the mix, and unless you have a good ear and/or a firm grasp of music theory, it'll be extremely difficult and painful to create a playable chart.  Other times, a charter is simply not interested in playing instruments beyond what they've already charted, but still felt like submitting their stuff anyway, just to share or perhaps in the hope that others would pick up the remaining instruments.  In any case, most authors will be happy to hear you've taken an interest in improving their stuff.  Like Shroud said, ask nicely!

 

6.  An exhaustive list isn't really possible, but generally speaking, here is what you need to know.

  • Game controllers intended for the Rock Band or Guitar Hero series on your console will work with Rock Band 3.  This includes all the guitars, all the drum kits, and of course the RB3 keyboard.
  • Most USB microphones will work, including those bundled with games for other consoles, and even mics sold separately and not intended for music games.
  • 99.99% of all MIDI-enabled keyboards will work when using the MPA.  In fact, I'd be surprised to hear of a keyboard that doesn't work.  Keyboards with the older 5-pin MIDI ports will work out of the box, while keyboards that support only MIDI-over-USB will need a little more finagling to work with the game.  Such finagling is documented elsewhere here.
  • Most MIDI-enabled electronic drum kits will work when using the MPA.  If your kit lets you change the MIDI note(s) for each pad and cymbal, you can make it work.  If your kit can't be reconfigured but claims to support the "General MIDI" standard for MIDI drum mapping, odds are it'll still work.  Again, drum kits with 5-pin MIDI ports will work as is while drum kits with MIDI-over-USB will need a little extra help.
  • Officially, only the Fender Squier released specifically for Rock Band 3 will work with the MPA for playing pro guitar.  The Mustang game controller, the one with 17 frets and 105 fret buttons, can also work with the MPA, which can be handy when you have a Mustang for one console, but the game for a different console.  (The RB3 keyboard can jump consoles with an MPA too.)  Unofficially, there is a discontinued electronic guitar called the You Rock Guitar that can also be made to work with the MPA to play pro guitar.  To my knowledge no one has successfully gotten any other electronic guitars to work with the game.


#7 WarMarioDragon

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Posted June 19, 2020 - 06:15 PM

Thank you Shroud and FujiSkunk for your input and to those who stopped by. Just some follow up questions, some insight, and I should be set.

1. Any good places to start looking for pro (Mainly pro keys)? Is it as simple as googling it?

2. I finally found the info on tempo mapping and for the most part, everything is covered and I can see why vets would be upset when newbies asking questions when the answer is already there, though there is a fair amount of reading required. I learned to create customs from NetNGames video tutorials as reading has never been a strength of mine nor something I enjoy doing, but now that I have experience hopefully I'll be able to address any issue I come across with the docs at hand.

3. (Same as 2)

4. Not my best decision to take Japanese as my language in college, but it did help it a bit since I have a better idea of what sounds being pronounce were.

5. I'm happy that I'm not the only one I felt that way. I was hoping not to come off as selfish for it could be taken the wrong.

6. Part of me is happy that you told me of a third option for pro guitar, I have the red mustang, but those frets are something else and the original is over price. The other part is upset since now I 'm wanting to buy it... >.< why does it have to be so expensive.



#8 FujiSkunk

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Posted June 20, 2020 - 04:48 AM

Sadly, finding keyboard transcriptions on the Internet isn't as easy as finding guitar transcriptions and tablature, but depending on the song, you might get lucky.  Often it helps to look for MIDI arrangements of songs.  Some MIDI files out there are really good and really faithful to the original song, making them excellent references for all instruments.  Other MIDI files, not so much, but even the not-so-good ones can sometimes help for figuring out chords and the like.  Some MIDI files are professionally done, which means you have to pay for them, but some charters consider it worth the investment.

 

If you know how to read sheet music, you can use piano books as well.  Most piano books offer "condensed" arrangements which aren't very faithful to the original keyboard parts, but they can still be a useful reference.  Other keyboard books actually do offer authentic transcriptions, even though these are few and far between.  The Hal Leonard Note-for-Note Keyboard Transcriptions series are some of my favorite books for making good keys charts.

 

Any which way, no matter what the odds are of finding something useful, it never hurts to search.  Good luck!



#9 Shroud

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Posted June 20, 2020 - 07:16 AM

In my opinion there's a huge difference between charting piano, keyboard/organ, or other instruments (strings or winds) on Pro Keys.

Piano is by far the most difficult, because pianists use 10 fingers and a large range of octaves which we don't have in the game. It's really hard to chart by ear. If you make it up, the results may be too different from the real experience, and will be a let down. Contrary to Harmonix intentions, I would definitely chart something for the left hand too, it's enough if it's only ONE note on the left thumb, but in many songs it's essential to keep the rhythm feel between both hands. I don't know if I would ever be able to do it without a transcript. My only experience with charted piano is adding it to Queen "My melancholy blues" for which I had a full transcript (and anyway I also had someone else's draft chart to start from).

For keyboard/organ, it's more acceptable to fake or simplify chords (but keeping rhythm is alway paramount as for all other instruments in the game). That's because electric keyboardists use a wide variety of sounds that affect the results, and different keyboardists or the same keyboardist with different setup (different instrument or even just a different location) often add/remove notes in chords to make the sound more/less prominent. Because of this I think compromises are more acceptable, and it's much easier to find just the CHORDS of the song, because they are the same for every instrument, and there are lots of guitar books and transcripts with chords. Another possibility is to search YouTube for videos of Synthesia, which is software for visualizing piano rolls, many people record lots of famous songs with it.

When charting wind instruments, you might find the exact transcription in published books alongside the vocals. But since they are single notes always, I just chart them by ear (harmonica in my case).

The Hal Leonard Note-for-Note Keyboard Transcriptions series are some of my favorite books for making good keys charts.


I am lucky to live in a country with excellent libraries that also keep music books, I am going to have to check how many of these HL releases they have, thanks for the tip!

#10 Shroud

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Posted June 20, 2020 - 07:34 AM

Also adding a note on charting vocals...

It's not that difficult if you put a little effort first. Things that really help:

- use Spleeter software to separate vocals from the audio

- all guitar books (even older ones with tabs) also have note-by-note vocals transcripts, I NEVER understood what they were useful for. Well for charting RB customs they TOTALLY are! You can almost just copy those notes to Reaper and adjust the timing a bit.

- I think many people are put off by the instructions about having to position the notes exactly down to the 64th/128th as well as settings the note duration perfectly. Start by placing notes on 16ths! If you start too precisely in Reaper not only it will be a painful work, but sometimes they will feel WRONG in-game. It's best to place vocals notes more in line with the song tempo (less sloppy) then test your draft in-game and only then adjust the notes starting instant.

- Check notes by enabling the vocal track FX which beeps on them. This is a great way to verify both the pitch and the timing! Use the same tool also for Pro Keys.




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