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Tempo Mapping Video, how I tempo map


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#1 rubydanger

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Posted May 6, 2020 - 11:15 PM

So I know it can be tough starting out, so I decided to make a few videos of how I do things.  I am in no way saying my way is the best, hell I might be doing it the hard way for all I know, but I do know this works for me.

 

My first one is on Tempo Mapping

 

Tempo mapping is crucial for a good custom!!  With a good tempo map, everything else falls into place.  There are many different styles of tempo mapping, but I found that this way works best for me for many reasons.  Jksrb turned me onto this method, that was written up by DoNotPassGo in another thread.  

 

Doing it this way gives so much room for fixing, modifying, and control in my opinion.

 

Do you have a suggestion or a different method - I'd love to hear about it

 


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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#2 doa

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Posted May 6, 2020 - 11:34 PM

Learning the DNPG method was a game changer for me in terms of tempo mapping. I also recently started doing the speeter thing too. 

 

I love the flexibility of this method and the potential to fix things, if needed. 

 

It's the only method I use now … 

 

Nice job on the video!



#3 rubydanger

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 12:07 AM

Thanks, I didn't know about the watermark when editing it, so I will be making a new one, basically same thing just without watermark.  And I need to dig out my microphone from somewhere it seems, the onboard one sucks ass!!

 

 [Watermark removed]


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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#4 doa

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 12:41 AM

I didn't think that the audio sounded that bad - and the watermark (while big) didn't really detract from what you were doing. 



#5 DoNotPassGo

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 01:21 AM

Alright, this is pretty sweet. Had the idea to do this myself at one point a long time ago, but never got around to it. Glad someone did!

 

You (or someone likely) actually improved my original method a bit. I never actually put the first two marker actions in my macro, only the last 4 ones. I still personally place every marker by hand that I'm using, instead of doing it in the macro. However, I'm not actually for or against it either way. I usually do tempo mapping in "sections" to help with the ad nauseam. More so, I'll do intro markers, and then go back and spam the action. Then verse, ect. Either works great though!

 

I can tell you up front, until using this, it does seem like a lot more work. In the end, that's not entirely wrong. If you are mapping in 4/4 and there are strong down-beat waveforms, then it's perfectly fine to use the normal method and would take a bit less time. The huge use of this comes when, as you discussed, you need to subdivide your tempo mapping for one reason or another. You can drop markers on a per-beat cycle if necessary (good for slowing down or speeding up sections); you can map on snares every 2 beats if downbeats aren't great; you can just pick whatever the hell is showing in the wave to use. 

 

Tempo mapping a lot of Rush had huge help with this. Show Don't Tell had accents on the 16th before a downbeat. Well.... I just changed my initial tempo marker to 1/16, and then mapped using that. I would have one measure of "15/16" and another of "17/16". I've charted a lot of songs where every other* downbeat had a kick on it. I would basically be charting in cycles of 3 beats, 2 beats, and 3 beats (ie, kick, snare on 4, snare on next 2) in 4/4.

 

Another big help is when you have some inconsistency within a measure. I can count a lot of time I'd match up two downbeats, but see the snare hit at beat 3 falls... off. Usually due to fills being played different speeds at times. Well, just go back and rechart the measure quick with markers throughout so it lines up better, splitting the difference.

 

 

In the end, I always still try to map (even while using this method) on a measure basis. I will still map using full measure intervals, and then make the adjustments when necessary helped by this. 

 

Can't say I fully approve of your starting tempo method, however  :P



#6 rubydanger

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 01:50 AM

 

 

Can't say I fully approve of your starting tempo method, however  :P

 

Lol, well tell me Obi-Wan, what should I be doing differently?  I pretty much made that part up myself.  I am a sponge!!


Want to help with a collaboration??

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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#7 zimbabwean

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 05:00 AM

Thank you for going to the effort. About time I gave it a bash, I guess. Tend to think I'm on struggle street for a bit, but one thing I have noticed is the help dished out to members by members.

Just one quick question - how do you pick an 'easy' song to start with? I don't want to wreck something I really, really like, but nor do I want to use up all my 'creativity' (this assumes I have some and don't give up at the first hiccup) on something bland! The band in question is the Anti-Nowhere League, bit sparse in the database..



#8 rubydanger

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 05:05 AM

Thank you for going to the effort. About time I gave it a bash, I guess. Tend to think I'm on struggle street for a bit, but one thing I have noticed is the help dished out to members by members.

Just one quick question - how do you pick an 'easy' song to start with? I don't want to wreck something I really, really like, but nor do I want to use up all my 'creativity' (this assumes I have some and don't give up at the first hiccup) on something bland! The band in question is the Anti-Nowhere League, bit sparse in the database..

 

I made that mistake, my first Tempo Map was Ratt - Way Cool Jr.  And anyone that knows that song knows that it is all over the place.  Tempo map drove me nuts!!!  

 

Pick a song with a simple, as constant as possible beat.  Even if you don't plan on charting it, just to get used to doing the tempo map.  I am not very familiar with Anti-Nowhere League.  I can only recall 1 song by them so couldn't really help you there.

 

I am now to the point that Tempo Mapping is my favorite part about making a custom - used to be my least favorite part.

 

And it really helps to do a collaboration or 2 for the first few songs, or at least ask someone to have a look at it and critique it.  2 sets of eyes and ears are always better than 1.


Want to help with a collaboration??

Check the Collaborators Help Wanted page HERE

 

Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#9 Shroud

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 07:53 AM

I have always used the "q" method, so this method of yours based on 1/4 tempo instead of full measures sounds like a huge improvement, thanks!

 

Could you please write down the list of commands we need to add to the Custom Marker Tempo macro? For some reason your video appears too blurred to me to figure out those commands.

 

Also... does Spleeter now have a GUI?  :aaa:  Where did you get it from? I've been using Spleeter through the Anaconda Powershell command-based interface, but you just dragged-and-dropped your audio file into a sort of GUI application there. And by the way, did you set it up to run on your GPU? I never managed that, and it always takes me half an hour to separate stems.



#10 rubydanger

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 08:26 AM

I honestly do not remember where I found it but yes, its a Spleeter GUI.  Simply takes about 30 seconds to make stems.  I will try and find where I got it and post.

 

I found it but am unsure if I am allowed to post a link to the site here - will wait to see what a mod says.

 

Here is a PIC of the commands

 

k631j4p0st80wimzg.jpg

 

And again, I cannot give enough praise, this was DoNotPassGo's method.  I might have tweaked it a little for me but it is all his doing.  Yes it has made the Q method a distant memory for me.


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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#11 DoNotPassGo

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 11:58 AM

I believe there is already a shortcut under 'T' (similar to Q), that uses the similar method of Q where you put your cursor on the location you want... but it uses the "... new time signature" way. This is basically the same thing this is doing if you wanted to try it out.

 

However, that works on a 1 by 1 basis. I tend to map in chunks, and the marker method lets you drop several markers at a time and then macro through them. Good for fixing measures that need to get split up quickly by half-measure or beat intervals.



#12 DoNotPassGo

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 12:00 PM

 

Lol, well tell me Obi-Wan, what should I be doing differently?  I pretty much made that part up myself.  I am a sponge!!

 

Was kind of just busting balls on that one, ha. I'm not a fan of getting bpm from the internet since I've found it to be hit or miss on many occasions. I think it's less a problem for more modern songs which tended to be generally quantized already decently well, or just use a "perfect" drum machine anyways.

 

I also tempo map out the first measure manually to see what it will* be, and then change the initial tempo to match that (rounding to the nearest .5). Nothing bothers my OCD more than seeing the count in happen at like 160 to have the first measure 146 or something. Yours was actually close enough to be fine which works out lol.



#13 zimbabwean

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 05:44 PM

 

I made that mistake, my first Tempo Map was Ratt - Way Cool Jr.  And anyone that knows that song knows that it is all over the place.  Tempo map drove me nuts!!!  

 

Pick a song with a simple, as constant as possible beat.  Even if you don't plan on charting it, just to get used to doing the tempo map.  I am not very familiar with Anti-Nowhere League.  I can only recall 1 song by them so couldn't really help you there.

 

I am now to the point that Tempo Mapping is my favorite part about making a custom - used to be my least favorite part.

 

And it really helps to do a collaboration or 2 for the first few songs, or at least ask someone to have a look at it and critique it.  2 sets of eyes and ears are always better than 1.

 

Thanks



#14 doa

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 05:44 PM

Spleeter GUI: https://github.com/boy1dr/SpleeterGui



#15 rubydanger

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 06:15 PM

 

Thats not the same Gui I used, or at least I don't think so

 

This is the one I used

https://makenweb.com/spleeter2.php


Want to help with a collaboration??

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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#16 doa

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Posted May 7, 2020 - 06:30 PM

Your link is better - mine ends up linking to the same thing I think :)



#17 rubydanger

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Posted May 8, 2020 - 05:46 PM

Hey Shroud, I am really curious if you have tried it yet and how you feel about it if you have?


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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#18 Shroud

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Posted May 8, 2020 - 08:47 PM

Hey Shroud, I am really curious if you have tried it yet and how you feel about it if you have?


Not working.

It's probably because my PC or its GPU is not new/powerful enough, but at least the command-line version works even if it takes 30 minutes to split one song.

I might give it another shot in the weekend as I've already noticed others are having exactly the same error I have.

#19 rubydanger

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Posted May 9, 2020 - 02:13 AM

Lol - sorry, I meant the Tempo mapping method.  I should have been more clear


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Video on how I tempo map

Beginners Vocal charting video


#20 Shroud

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Posted May 9, 2020 - 08:28 AM

Lol - sorry, I meant the Tempo mapping method.  I should have been more clear


Oh ok :D I will certainly try this method but I haven't done any charting this week, I am still deciding what to do next.




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