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CAT reductions: Hard is same as Expert


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#1 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 02:27 AM

WARNING: PART BASS Hard has the same amount or more notes than Expert.

 

 

I've charted a couple songs and used CAT reductions successfully on those, but on my recent song, the Hard parts are the same as Expert on Drums, Guitar, and Bass. A few exceptions with guitar: it does simplify 3-note chords into 2-note chords, for one thing. Also on drums, it doesn't simplify any verses or the chorus, but it simplifies just before the verse, and a fast part during the end of the bridge.

Medium and Easy charts seem to have reduced just fine.

Any idea what's going on? Thanks!



#2 Atruejedi

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 02:30 AM

Select all of your notes and use the quantize function. This typically solves my reduction issues.


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#3 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 04:08 AM

Thanks for the reply. I highlighted all of my Expert notes on the bass part and used the quantize function in Reaper (the Q button) with these settings: Use grid, Selected notes, Position (also tried Position and note end), 100% Strength, Fix overlaps checked, but it didn't seem to change anything and when I tried reducing the parts, the same problem occurred: the Hard part is the same as the Expert part.

Any other ideas?



#4 Caserol23

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 04:57 AM

 
I've charted a couple songs and used CAT reductions successfully on those, but on my recent song, the Hard parts are the same as Expert on Drums, Guitar, and Bass. A few exceptions with guitar: it does simplify 3-note chords into 2-note chords, for one thing. Also on drums, it doesn't simplify any verses or the chorus, but it simplifies just before the verse, and a fast part during the end of the bridge.

Medium and Easy charts seem to have reduced just fine.

Any idea what's going on? Thanks!


on a CAT (Program), you'll set the quantize (not pressing "Q") inside the program...

inside of a program you need select on hard as "1/16", on medium "1/8", and easy "1/4" which was this configuration is default

and change your "Tolerance" number, and "20" is default

GyyPEOS.gif


#5 Shroud

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 09:12 AM

Any other ideas?

 

Make manual reductions.

 

Honestly, reductions are EASY to do manually, even for Pro Keys! And you would have probably finished them by now.



#6 bsbloom

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 09:26 AM

The default is to reduce 3-note chords to 2, and to make most notes fall on the 1/16th scale.

 

So, if you have a lot of triplets in the chart, the hard chart will be much different.  If you have a very fast song, with many notes per measure, the hard chart will be much different.

 

But, if the song is fairly simple (think level 1 or 2), then the hard chart and the expert chart will be nearly identical. 

 

Think about the level of the song.  If the song is fairly tricky, then the hard chart will be much easier to play.  But if the song-level is low to begin with, then that first reduction may not change anything.



#7 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 01:52 PM

on a CAT (Program), you'll set the quantize (not pressing "Q") inside the program...

inside of a program you need select on hard as "1/16", on medium "1/8", and easy "1/4" which was this configuration is default

and change your "Tolerance" number, and "20" is default

Oh, thanks. I was looking for the word "quantize" and didn't see it anywhere in CAT.

My default for 5-lane auto reductions is Hard 1/8, Medium 1/4, and Easy 1/2. I tried what you said, and nothing changed when I ran it. I tried changing the tolerance (not sure what that means?) from 20 to 10, nothing changed. From 20 to 40, nothing changed.

In all scenarios, the Bass line doesn't change from Expert to Hard, and even Medium and Easy are essentially unchanged, except some held out notes are shortened, that's it. But Easy even looks close to the Expert level, and I know from using it on a couple other songs that it should be lowering the difficulty more than that for Easy. (On guitar and drums, the easy parts actually look easy. Not sure why this isn't the case on Bass.)

So I'm still unsure what the problem is...



#8 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 01:56 PM

The default is to reduce 3-note chords to 2, and to make most notes fall on the 1/16th scale.

 

So, if you have a lot of triplets in the chart, the hard chart will be much different.  If you have a very fast song, with many notes per measure, the hard chart will be much different.

 

But, if the song is fairly simple (think level 1 or 2), then the hard chart and the expert chart will be nearly identical. 

 

Think about the level of the song.  If the song is fairly tricky, then the hard chart will be much easier to play.  But if the song-level is low to begin with, then that first reduction may not change anything.

Thanks, yeah, the guitar part is certainly fast enough that it should be being simplified more. And the kick in the drums should definitely have been reduced from Expert to Hard, but it wasn't. This seems to be an actual issue, not just that the song is too easy to reduce much. I mean, the Bass should definitely be being simplified somewhere on Hard, but it's exactly the same as Expert. It's not THAT slow a part, I don't think.

And I should mention that actually, the Medium part on Bass isn't reduced, either, except some note lengths are shortened. It still comes up in Magma as having the same amount of notes. Surely the Medium part should have been reduced!



#9 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 01:59 PM

 

Make manual reductions.

 

Honestly, reductions are EASY to do manually, even for Pro Keys! And you would have probably finished them by now.

Haha, you're absolutely right that I would have finished them by now, but I meant any ideas on what I'm doing wrong with CAT reductions. :) It's been helpful to use them as a starting place for reducing the parts and then going in manually where necessary. Even then, I take a lot of time with them, possibly because I'm just newer at it



#10 Caserol23

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 05:36 PM

Oh, thanks. I was looking for the word "quantize" and didn't see it anywhere in CAT.

My default for 5-lane auto reductions is Hard 1/8, Medium 1/4, and Easy 1/2. I tried what you said, and nothing changed when I ran it. I tried changing the tolerance (not sure what that means?) from 20 to 10, nothing changed. From 20 to 40, nothing changed.

In all scenarios, the Bass line doesn't change from Expert to Hard, and even Medium and Easy are essentially unchanged, except some held out notes are shortened, that's it. But Easy even looks close to the Expert level, and I know from using it on a couple other songs that it should be lowering the difficulty more than that for Easy. (On guitar and drums, the easy parts actually look easy. Not sure why this isn't the case on Bass.)

So I'm still unsure what the problem is...


to be good uhm... Manual Reductions!
thats really better than using a Bot Reductions...

i'm not arguing with creator of the program (thanks and big credits to him)

GyyPEOS.gif


#11 Caserol23

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 05:42 PM

Haha, you're absolutely right that I would have finished them by now, but I meant any ideas on what I'm doing wrong with CAT reductions. :) It's been helpful to use them as a starting place for reducing the parts and then going in manually where necessary. Even then, I take a lot of time with them, possibly because I'm just newer at it


i really encountered it, on your last project, export first your MIDI from directory elsewhere, you need to create again a project then open the C3 RB3 template, highlight the "PART PRO BASS" by click it once...

press CTRL+T (create a new track), paste your MIDI where your exported at, then copy then paste your notes, and do it again from other parts...

then launch CAT then try if works... :D

GyyPEOS.gif


#12 Caserol23

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 05:43 PM

Select all of your notes and use the quantize function. This typically solves my reduction issues.


hmmmm... curously, i should try. :D

GyyPEOS.gif


#13 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 05:59 PM

to be good uhm... Manual Reductions!
thats really better than using a Bot Reductions...

i'm not arguing with creator of the program (thanks and big credits to him)

I absolutely can manually reduce each part, but I'd like to see if anyone can figure out why CAT reductions isn't working properly just for this song, that's all. I know I can do it myself, haha, I just want to figure out what's wrong with CAT for this one song.

 

 

i really encountered it, on your last project, export first your MIDI from directory elsewhere, you need to create again a project then open the C3 RB3 template, highlight the "PART PRO BASS" by click it once...

press CTRL+T (create a new track), paste your MIDI where your exported at, then copy then paste your notes, and do it again from other parts...

then launch CAT then try if works... :D

I actually did export the midi, put it into a new C3 RB3 template, copy and paste the notes into the bass part, and tried CAT. I got back the exact same results: the Hard and Medium have the same amount of notes as Expert.

And the bass part isn't so easy that it should be no different; it definitely should reduce some, but it doesn't.



#14 Caserol23

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 06:16 PM

I absolutely can manually reduce each part, but I'd like to see if anyone can figure out why CAT reductions isn't working properly just for this song, that's all. I know I can do it myself, haha, I just want to figure out what's wrong with CAT for this one song.

 
 
I actually did export the midi, put it into a new C3 RB3 template, copy and paste the notes into the bass part, and tried CAT. I got back the exact same results: the Hard and Medium have the same amount of notes as Expert.

And the bass part isn't so easy that it should be no different; it definitely should reduce some, but it doesn't.


oh hellish that part haha... that was s**ks!!! on the other Instruments?, had that same problem like on PART BASS?

GyyPEOS.gif


#15 ScottSandwich

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 06:57 PM

oh hellish that part haha... that was s**ks!!! on the other Instruments?, had that same problem like on PART BASS?

The Hard parts are the same as Expert on Drums, Guitar, and Bass. A few exceptions with guitar: it does simplify 3-note chords into 2-note chords, for one thing. Also on drums, it doesn't simplify any verses or the chorus, but it simplifies a cymbal roll before the verse, and a short fast part during the end of the bridge. Medium and Easy charts seem to have reduced just fine for Guitar and Drums. Bass is the only one that has the exact same amount of notes on Expert, Hard, and Medium, but for Guitar and Drums, the Expert and Hard parts are almost identical throughout, because only a few minor changes were made to certain parts, but it's otherwise exactly the same.



#16 Caserol23

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Posted February 18, 2020 - 07:09 PM

The Hard parts are the same as Expert on Drums, Guitar, and Bass. A few exceptions with guitar: it does simplify 3-note chords into 2-note chords, for one thing. Also on drums, it doesn't simplify any verses or the chorus, but it simplifies a cymbal roll before the verse, and a short fast part during the end of the bridge. Medium and Easy charts seem to have reduced just fine for Guitar and Drums. Bass is the only one that has the exact same amount of notes on Expert, Hard, and Medium, but for Guitar and Drums, the Expert and Hard parts are almost identical throughout, because only a few minor changes were made to certain parts, but it's otherwise exactly the same.


Damn, that was so struggling... for me, it's better to reduct it by manually with your bare hands haha :D

GyyPEOS.gif





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