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Cymbal Swell question


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#1 a2dmusic

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Posted August 11, 2019 - 11:36 PM

A quick search didn't help me - in the RBN documentation, they state the following, with C3's note.

 

 

There are two kinds of drum rolls for both Pro and standard RB Drum Modes. 

  • Standard Drum Rolls are authored on note 126 (F#8). They work similar to fills where you start the roll lane where the first note is authored, and you end the roll lane so it doesn’t overlap the last note in the roll. 
  • Special Drum Rolls are authored on note 127 (G8). They are used for cymbal swells and allow the player to do a roll that is divided between two pads. It is authored the same way as normal rolls, but should only be used for special instances. A good example would the cymbal swells at the beginning and the end of The Beast and the Harlot.
    • C3 note: Many people have found these two note rolls to be unfairly strict and hard to combo, so consider charting cymbal swells as a one lane swell (usually on Green cymbal).

 

I'm charting a song that has several cymbal swells.  I'm still a little uncertain how to do it based on this.  Should I still be using note 127 BUT just charting note hits on one lane (green)?  Or are you recommending using note 126 because 127 only works with the two-pad method (which is jank and to be avoided)?

 

What I initially did was use note 126... then authored 16th notes on the green pad.  But then even on easy difficulty it gave me something much more like a drum roll and showed a bunch of missed notes as a result.  Clearly wrong.  How ought I be doing this?



#2 onyxite

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Posted August 12, 2019 - 04:31 AM

Yeah, the way the documentation is worded is not quite right. 126 is used for a roll/swell on one pad, 127 for a roll/swell on two pads. 126 can be used with any non-kick gem (snare, tom or cymbal), 127 can be used with any pair of non-kick gems as long as they are different colors. But the 127 (two-lane) ones are difficult to hit consistently because they seem to have more strict timing enforcement (and strict alternation requirement) compared to the one-lane ones. So even though many actual drummers do cymbal swells on two cymbals we often write them on one nowadays in recognition of the game engine.

 

Rolls/swells are generally only used on Expert difficulty, sometimes on Hard difficulty also. I believe what was discovered is that if the velocity of the 126/127 note is low (40?), then it will also apply to Hard. But they never affect Easy or Medium.



#3 a2dmusic

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Posted August 12, 2019 - 04:46 AM

Yeah, the way the documentation is worded is not quite right. 126 is used for a roll/swell on one pad, 127 for a roll/swell on two pads. 126 can be used with any non-kick gem (snare, tom or cymbal), 127 can be used with any pair of non-kick gems as long as they are different colors.

 

Awesome, thanks!  Time to dive back into the file...



#4 Shroud

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Posted August 12, 2019 - 12:43 PM

I am also interested in how to properly use these options...

 

The documentation makes it sound like it's actually better to avoid rolls/swells altogether, but why? Aren't they supposed to make it easier than charting strict 16ths or 32nds? What do rolls actually change, do they allow the drummist to play the notes at free-tempo as long as they are fast enough? Do they still need to be equally spaced?

 

I'm just asking because as a player, the game always seems to tell me I'm missing most notes in every roll... am I supposed to still try to hit the visible gems or to be actually faster than the visible ones?



#5 Alternity

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Posted August 12, 2019 - 06:48 PM

Yes, that's what lanes does, all you have to hit at the right tempo is the first note, the rest you can hit the pad(s) at any speed as long as it's fast enough (I can't recall the exact needed speed).

Usually it's better to use these on extremely fast rolls/swells only, ones that would be (almost) impossible to hit normally.






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