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[PS3] Customs not working due to multiple drums tracks

ps3 multitrack magma

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#21 murlatok

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Posted May 11, 2019 - 08:18 AM

 

 

Also Chic - Good Times I believe is a broken custom for PS3, although I think I fixed it with a rerender.  This was a year ago, so I might just be making stuff up.  Definitely one to check though

Good Times works perfectly



#22 Shroud

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Posted May 11, 2019 - 11:53 AM

Great job murlatok, you've been very helpful, huge thanks!

#23 Shroud

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Posted May 11, 2019 - 12:03 PM

These songs go in to the loop after the final note is played (allows pausing the game and exiting to song library):
Dire Straits - Money for Nothing
Turtles - Happy Together
 
Same issue encountered with these:
Creedence Clearwater Revival - Commotion
Linkin Park - The Messenger
Trapt - Headstrong


I am not sure but I think the loop ending is a separate issue, I think it also happens with single track customs.

 

Perhaps we should start another thread to list customs which have the "loop ending" problem  :D



#24 murlatok

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Posted May 12, 2019 - 03:46 PM

Just found out that Duffy - Warwick Avenue freezes mid-game.



#25 Rocker1999

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Posted May 15, 2019 - 12:34 AM

Good Times works perfectly

Yeah Good Times works perfectly because I recompiled it with a single track drum stem.  This custom was the first time where this issue came up though, so that's why I remember it.

 

I am actually fixing that custom up once again so wew lad.


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#26 murlatok

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Posted May 23, 2019 - 10:58 AM

http://customscreato...infected-r11929

 

Saw the reply about this one not working after converting to PS3. Didn't test it myself though. Guess it should be added to the list.

 

BTW anyone working on fixing the songs from the list or I'm asking for too much? :)



#27 Shroud

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Posted May 23, 2019 - 11:10 AM

http://customscreato...infected-r11929

 

Saw the reply about this one not working after converting to PS3. Didn't test it myself though. Guess it should be added to the list.

 

BTW anyone working on fixing the songs from the list or I'm asking for too much? :)

 

I've updated the list. I also mark songs as "CONFIRMED" when we get enough people to say they don't work for them, to make sure it's not accidental mistakes.

 

At least @MrPrezident promised to look into fixing Thin Lizzy's "Jailbreak", and @MFX mentioned Gotye's "Somebody that I used to know" is already under work.

 

By the way, have you tried to see if the C3 CON Tools option for fixing the loop ending solved the problem with Dire Straits' "Money for Nothing" and The Turtles' "Happy Together"? If they only loop but don't freeze, I think we should remove them from this list, as the root cause is different.



#28 murlatok

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Posted May 23, 2019 - 01:47 PM

 

 

 

By the way, have you tried to see if the C3 CON Tools option for fixing the loop ending solved the problem with Dire Straits' "Money for Nothing" and The Turtles' "Happy Together"? If they only loop but don't freeze, I think we should remove them from this list, as the root cause is different.

 

I tried playing with loop fixes, but it never did anything for me. Maybe i did something wrong since i believe this issue wasn't addressed in-depth. Maybe same list should be compiled for loop-affected customs in case there's some kind of 'essential' solution/fix for this. I can help with testing some of them.



#29 Shroud

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Posted June 13, 2019 - 04:38 AM

 
I tried playing with loop fixes, but it never did anything for me. Maybe i did something wrong since i believe this issue wasn't addressed in-depth. Maybe same list should be compiled for loop-affected customs in case there's some kind of 'essential' solution/fix for this. I can help with testing some of them.


Just yesterday I encountered the first custom with the loop ending problem (Tears for Fears - Sowing the Seeds of Love). This song has enough seconds of padding at the end so that you can actually play all the notes, but then it would hang and not end properly: you have to drop out to go back to the songs list, and this means that your scores won't be saved.

So I went back to C3 CON Tools and re-converted the song, this time activating the "fix loop ending" checkbox. After that, the song works perfectly (at least when playing vocal or keys, haven't tried the others yet).

But I guess the trick doesn't work with all songs? At least this song didn't have the drums multitrack, but I doubt that these 2 problems affect each other.

By the way I have noticed that C3 CON Tools have a similar-sounding option in the menu, which seems to want to fix a single mogg directly. I presume it runs the same code anyway but I am not sure.

#30 murlatok

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Posted June 13, 2019 - 10:29 AM

Just yesterday I encountered the first custom with the loop ending problem (Tears for Fears - Sowing the Seeds of Love). This song has enough seconds of padding at the end so that you can actually play all the notes, but then it would hang and not end properly: you have to drop out to go back to the songs list, and this means that your scores won't be saved.

So I went back to C3 CON Tools and re-converted the song, this time activating the "fix loop ending" checkbox. After that, the song works perfectly (at least when playing vocal or keys, haven't tried the others yet).

But I guess the trick doesn't work with all songs? At least this song didn't have the drums multitrack, but I doubt that these 2 problems affect each other.

By the way I have noticed that C3 CON Tools have a similar-sounding option in the menu, which seems to want to fix a single mogg directly. I presume it runs the same code anyway but I am not sure.

 

95% of the customs i play are multitrack, so they might have different problems with loops and stuff. Maybe each one is one is an independent case. Maybe also should try converting them one-by-one. For now i just removed them from my library.



#31 TrashRBPlayer

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 08:45 AM

Just a quick update on this issue.

 

Me and Rocker1999 did some more research on this today, and found the issue is related to the quality setting in C3 Magma. Further testing is needed, but we found that when Quality 3 (which is what RBN songs were compiled at), the issue stopped.

 

I wonder if it's a bug in the edited version of oggenc C3 uses (I couldn't find the source for it?) that can be fixed, or a random issue PS3 appears to have with higher quality.

 

If a song is unencrypted, it can now be fixed by recompiling in C3 Magma with the lower quality, sadly encrypted audio is still an issue as it can't be recompiled without the original author, which is not an option in many cases.

 

 

I assume there's no way to lower the quality of an encrypted file?



#32 Shroud

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 11:01 AM

Just a quick update on this issue.

 

Me and Rocker1999 did some more research on this today, and found the issue is related to the quality setting in C3 Magma. Further testing is needed, but we found that when Quality 3 (which is what RBN songs were compiled at), the issue stopped.

 

I wonder if it's a bug in the edited version of oggenc C3 uses (I couldn't find the source for it?) that can be fixed, or a random issue PS3 appears to have with higher quality.

 

If a song is unencrypted, it can now be fixed by recompiling in C3 Magma with the lower quality, sadly encrypted audio is still an issue as it can't be recompiled without the original author, which is not an option in many cases.

 

 

I assume there's no way to lower the quality of an encrypted file?

 

Great job!!

 

I would imagine that to lower the quality requires to decode and re-encode the audio. If that's the case, we would need something equivalent to an "inverse oggenc" (oggdec?), and even such thing could not be used on an encrypted audio, unless the program can decrypt and knows the proper encryption key. That is something that Magma knows, since it can encrypt, and IIRC also C3 CON Tools know. So my guess is that we would need an "oggdec" and changes to the Magma C3 or C3 CON Tools to temporarily decrypt the audio, decode it, re-encode it with Quality 3, and re-encrypt it. Obviously this requires to have their full un-redacted code, not the lite versions.

 

On the other hand... is it possible that at least Magma already can decode moggs? For example, the Audio Analyzer can display waveforms of an encrypted custom, so perhaps there is already an "oggdec" functionality in Magma?



#33 TrashRBPlayer

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 11:58 AM

 

Great job!!

 

I would imagine that to lower the quality requires to decode and re-encode the audio. If that's the case, we would need something equivalent to an "inverse oggenc" (oggdec?), and even such thing could not be used on an encrypted audio, unless the program can decrypt and knows the proper encryption key. That is something that Magma knows, since it can encrypt, and IIRC also C3 CON Tools know. So my guess is that we would need an "oggdec" and changes to the Magma C3 or C3 CON Tools to temporarily decrypt the audio, decode it, re-encode it with Quality 3, and re-encrypt it. Obviously this requires to have their full un-redacted code, not the lite versions.

 

On the other hand... is it possible that at least Magma already can decode moggs? For example, the Audio Analyzer can display waveforms of an encrypted custom, so perhaps there is already an "oggdec" functionality in Magma?

 

C3 Magma can pull apart a unencrypted CON. If a song is unencrypted, drag it into C3 Magma, and follow the prompts to get the project file. From there you can rebuild it with quality level 3 and (as far as testing has showed so far), play it fine on PS3 with full drum stems after.

 

The issue starts to show when it comes to encrypted moggs. C3 Magma can't handle them for obvious reasons, and I don't expect it to.

 

I feel the only option for encrypted songs is get in contact with authors and hope they are around for updates, if an author can't be reached... then I guess that song is unavailable for PS3 players...

 

Ideally a tool that could lower the quality without disturbing the encryption could be made, but I don't know how realistic that is or if it's even possible to be honest... this is out of my wheelhouse.

 

At the very least, I urge any authors to lower to quality 3 if you're using full drum stems, that way your custom should work and the quality loss is not really noticable, after all, quality 3 was fine for RBN :shobon:



#34 TrojanNemo

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 03:03 PM

Am I missing something, or isn't this like the fourth time a "solution" has been found, only to then figure out that wasn't "the" problem and only a problem with a handful of files?

The tools definitely have the ability to do what is being suggested, but it would not be pretty. A mogg is more than just a multichannel ogg file. It has special header stuff that only oggenc creates and we never figured out how to bypass oggenc or how to decompile it. So you would be forced to run the files through Magma again and recompile with a lower quality. Possible? Yes, but I can't release the source code that would allow that to happen, for obvious reasons.

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#35 TrashRBPlayer

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 06:03 PM

  • I'm 99% sure this is the problem, based on mine and Rocker1999's testing from earlier, songs that would lock up the PS3 instantly before are now fully playable and can be completed once rebuilt with QL3. At this point i'm willing to call it a solution, instead of speculation on what the issue could be as we had previously.

 

 

  • The issue with calling it a "handful" of files, is we don't know how far the problem actually goes, for example. Every GH track used multitrack drums,this means that any GH converts that used QL5 will be unplayable on PS3, which outside of GH2RB3, is the vast majority of them. There are also a bunch of customs that are an issue, with many authors unreachable.

 

  • Shame to hear about the lack of source code. Is there no chance of a pre-compiled tool to allow this?

 

Hopefullly something can be worked out... I feel PS3 is pretty important to the future of customs, RPCS3 currently boots RB1/2 and has made it in game on RB3. PS3 has the greatest number of instruments available too, as at this point, it's pretty much possible to use any guitar from any console through either hardware mods or adapters (I personally use a wired 360 guitar on my PS3), along with the general issues with 360 hardware (RROD for fat models, red dot for slim/bad DVD drives), and the system no longer needing to be modified for customs,

 

With 360 hardware failing more frequently, and instrument supplys starting to run out, I can see us reaching a point where PS3 is the way forward and hopefully every song that is playable on Xbox will be playable on PS3 by then.

 

 

Thanks for your time btw, and for the tools that have already helped us get this far.

 

(PS. Sorry if my messages aren't clear or anything in advance... i'm pretty heavily medicated right now and I'm a little loopy...)



#36 TrojanNemo

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 07:07 PM

There isn't a lack of source code. I have the source code. I just can't share it with anyone outside of C3 leadership because once it's out, all encryption is out the window.

 

A tool could be made, sure. But i don't have the time or interest and nobody in the C3 leadership has taken on the job of creating the next gen of tools.



#37 Shroud

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 09:09 PM

There isn't a lack of source code. I have the source code. I just can't share it with anyone outside of C3 leadership because once it's out, all encryption is out the window.
 
A tool could be made, sure. But i don't have the time or interest and nobody in the C3 leadership has taken on the job of creating the next gen of tools.

Could the "tool" be a simple menu option in Magma to load a ready mogg, which would then be automatically decrypted, decoded, re-encoded at quality 3, and re-encrypted? Or does this carry the risk of making the unencrypted audio available to be snatched at some point?

You have shared the "lite" code of Magma, which obviously doesn't include encryption and decryption functions (they are empty), but the rest is there.

So if WE design and add this new functionality to Magma "lite" (calling empty encryption functions), would you be available to merge it into the real Magma code (which has proper encryption functions) and recompile it? Or would someone else in the C3 elite group be capable of doing this merge & recompile of Magma?

#38 TrojanNemo

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Posted August 23, 2019 - 09:43 PM

Maybe possible. But I still don't have the time or motivation to work on this. I know it sounds petty but I put in my time for years and now I have two children, a full time career and other hobbies. I try to hang around the forums but that is not the same as wanting to get back in to start programming again and dedicating the kind of time that requires.



#39 PikedPike

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Posted August 28, 2019 - 06:38 AM

Hey so I am a ps3 player and I have suffered through lots of things like this where the song just freezes.

I can confirm that Jump - Van Halen is actually fine, at least on my console.

 

But Money for Nothing seems to Crash at the end, which I am not sure if it is caused by the glitch being dicussed here, because it kinda loops the track for a second, but infinitely. This same issue I found on 'I just can't get Enough - Depeche Mode' 'Billie Jean - Michael Jackson' 'Mad World - Tears for Fears' and 'Careless Whisper - George Michael'. The reason I think this glitch is unrelated is that some of the songs are still single track.

Though I have found more songs that definitely seem to be caused by the same issue (I am not sure about the song's listed above) But these would be 'She Will Be Loved - Maroon 5', 'Slider - Koji Kondo' and 'Over My Head - The Fray'.

Also the songs 'Hurts So Good - John Mellencamp' and 'Harder to Breathe - Maroon 5' crash in the menu on the ps3, again not sure if this glitch is related, but these two tracks also have multi tracks.

Anyway I hope I have helped point out some, also I think I remember reading somewhere that you said that there might be a fix for this. I am not sure though but if there is, could you link me to that. Thanks


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#40 Shroud

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Posted August 28, 2019 - 06:10 PM

 
But Money for Nothing seems to Crash at the end, which I am not sure if it is caused by the glitch being dicussed here, because it kinda loops the track for a second, but infinitely. This same issue I found on 'I just can't get Enough - Depeche Mode' 'Billie Jean - Michael Jackson' 'Mad World - Tears for Fears' and 'Careless Whisper - George Michael'. The reason I think this glitch is unrelated is that some of the songs are still single track.


These suffer from the "loop ending" problem, which is unrelated.

The good news is that they can all be fixed. Money for Nothing and Mad World for example can be fixed in the PS3 converter. Check my other thread about it, with instructions on how to fix them.





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