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Drum fill basics and unison overdrive


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#1 Atruejedi

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Posted January 24, 2018 - 04:27 PM

Yo. Here's a beginner's question for you: I'm putting the final touches on full-band Runaway Train (YES, ALREADY! You can thank Ryan for his speedy drum charting!) and I'm curious about doing drum fills correctly.

 

So, the RBN Documents say to place "1 measure" of a drum fill "every 4 bars." But there are 5 "DRUM FILL" tubes in Reaper and it says to "use all 5."

 

Does this mean I use each drum fill tube one time only?

 

If yes, do I have to use them in order?

 

Does this mean there are only 5 drum fills (and therefore drum overdrive deployment opportunities) per song? I don't drum... but I recall seeing drum fills pop up over and over again if a friend chose not to deploy overdrive.

 

If yes (or regardless, actually), at what spacing should I place the drum fills? I assume after a unison phrase is best?

 

I checked the PDF tutorial, but it simply sent me back to the RBN documents, lolz. Help appreciated.

 

Eh, and while I'm here...

 

The documents say to place overdrive and then go back and make half of those overdrives unisons. Is this right? So if I place 12 overdrive opportunities per instrument, 6 of them should be unisons?


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#2 EchoOfMystery

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Posted January 24, 2018 - 05:42 PM

You put all 5 tubes where you want a drum fill section to pop up. It will only appear if you have overdrive ready for deployment. You may put as many as you see fit, at least four or five beats away from each other, I think. 
 

Now for the unison phrases, I usually make 3 or 4, depending on the length of the song.



#3 Alternity

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Posted January 24, 2018 - 07:26 PM

Four or five beats seems way too close to each other. I think you meant 4 or 5 bars (measures).

 

For the Unisons, I think the rule for OD and Unisons is one OD phrase each 40 beats, but you remove one for each Unison you place to adjust. Can't recall the exact numbers but they are in the OD authoring docs, I usually go read them every time I do OD because for some reason I'm never sure of these.



#4 EchoOfMystery

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Posted January 24, 2018 - 07:30 PM

Yes! Measures. Thank you.  :bang:



#5 Atruejedi

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Posted January 24, 2018 - 07:36 PM

For the Unisons, I think the rule for OD and Unisons is one OD phrase each 40 beats, but you remove one for each Unison you place to adjust. Can't recall the exact numbers but they are in the OD authoring docs, I usually go read them every time I do OD because for some reason I'm never sure of these.

 

Yes, that's what the RBN documents say, but that seems like... a lot. I've played a lot of guitar/bass and I know for a fact that half the overdrive phrases are not unisons...


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#6 Alternity

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Posted January 24, 2018 - 07:38 PM

You don't have to place half of them as unisons. You could place none (but that would be boring for band play).

 

I do however usually place half, when you do this it's just a bit less phrases to pickup in gameplay, I guess it's a matter of preference, or the song.



#7 Farottone

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Posted January 25, 2018 - 12:30 AM

You don't have to place half of them as unisons. You could place none (but that would be boring for band play).

 

I do however usually place half, when you do this it's just a bit less phrases to pickup in gameplay, I guess it's a matter of preference, or the song.

 

Not really, ODs are need for gold stars, it's not a matter of preference. Too much and too little is bad, a unison every 2 phrases on average makes it so scoring runs smoothly. Adapting the amount based on songs is good but not on the basis of preference, more on the basis of scoring.



#8 Atruejedi

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Posted January 25, 2018 - 02:03 AM

 

Not really, ODs are need for gold stars, it's not a matter of preference. Too much and too little is bad, a unison every 2 phrases on average makes it so scoring runs smoothly. Adapting the amount based on songs is good but not on the basis of preference, more on the basis of scoring.

 

Would a 2-to-1 ratio be acceptable? This is what I'm most used to from Harmonix songs. One unison overdrive for every two solo overdrives... so if an instrument has 12 opportunities, 4 would be unison.


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Vocals Charting Philosophy - Because sometimes less is more
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#9 Alternity

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Posted January 25, 2018 - 02:53 AM

 

Not really, ODs are need for gold stars, it's not a matter of preference. Too much and too little is bad, a unison every 2 phrases on average makes it so scoring runs smoothly. Adapting the amount based on songs is good but not on the basis of preference, more on the basis of scoring.

I was talking about Unisons, not all OD phrases. AFAIK as long as you have enough OD phrases you don't have to have unisons to get GS score. All I was saying is doing this requires more phrases than with unisons.



#10 Whizzer

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Posted January 25, 2018 - 09:23 AM

Yo. Here's a beginner's question for you: I'm putting the final touches on full-band Runaway Train (YES, ALREADY! You can thank Ryan for his speedy drum charting!) and I'm curious about doing drum fills correctly.
 
So, the RBN Documents say to place "1 measure" of a drum fill "every 4 bars." But there are 5 "DRUM FILL" tubes in Reaper and it says to "use all 5."
 
Does this mean I use each drum fill tube one time only?
 
If yes, do I have to use them in order?
 
Does this mean there are only 5 drum fills (and therefore drum overdrive deployment opportunities) per song? I don't drum... but I recall seeing drum fills pop up over and over again if a friend chose not to deploy overdrive.
 
If yes (or regardless, actually), at what spacing should I place the drum fills? I assume after a unison phrase is best?
 
I checked the PDF tutorial, but it simply sent me back to the RBN documents, lolz. Help appreciated.
 
Eh, and while I'm here...
 
The documents say to place overdrive and then go back and make half of those overdrives unisons. Is this right? So if I place 12 overdrive opportunities per instrument, 6 of them should be unisons?


Whenever in doubt about how to do something specific, check finished midi files from either official or custom content. It's your best bet and most likely the fastest way to get an answer.

#11 Atruejedi

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Posted January 25, 2018 - 09:41 AM

Whenever in doubt about how to do something specific, check finished midi files from either official or custom content. It's your best bet and most likely the fastest way to get an answer.

 

A'yup. That's what I settled with. I opened up the Rockin' the Suburbs Reaper file I had because I knew it was finished (beyond vocals) and saw that, indeed, the 2-to-1 ratio that I've experienced in Rock Band so often seemed the way to go. I just got done placing the guitar/drum/bass overdrive sections and the drum fills and I think it's good. Fingers crossed.

 

To clarify (from the documents)...

 

Unison Phrases cannot be placed on the same measure as a Drum Fill. Similarly, do not mark an Overdrive Phrase so that the crash at the end of the fill is the first note of the Phrase. Failing to do so creates a possibility of the player not receiving Energy for the Phrase due to a bug in the game.

 

Does this mean they shouldn't touch at all? Like, if one ends at measure 91.1, the other should NOT begin at 91.1? Or can it?


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"Like a madman laughin' at the rain" - My custom song releases
Freelancers wanted! - Works-in-progress
"One-Trick Pony" - Details of my contributions in the database!
In-Depth Eclectic Suggestions - Let's collaborate!

Vocals Charting Philosophy - Because sometimes less is more
Packing Like a Pro - The Guide for a Legit Wii Library
Last.fm Profile - Let's be snobs together.


#12 Oddbrother

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Posted January 25, 2018 - 10:19 AM

Does this mean they shouldn't touch at all? Like, if one ends at measure 91.1, the other should NOT begin at 91.1? Or can it?

Correct. If you want to author an overdrive phrase that closely, you'd probably have to start from a note after the drum fill-ending note.
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