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A complex male/female "duet"... advice?


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#1 Atruejedi

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 08:09 AM

Yo. Time to solicit advice from the authoring pros so I can make a suitable venue for my upcoming second custom, a song by Fitz and the Tantrums. A lot of this will be thinking out loud, so bear with me.

 

Fitz and the Tantrums has two lead singers, a man and a woman. I want to make this song a proper "duet," but here's the twist: I want to have the male singer play the guitar (or bass if there is no guitar present) and sing the main part and the female singer hold the microphone as the backing vocalist. The song in question is also very keys-centric, to the point where there's no guitar part (although it remains to be seen if saxophone or something similar will be charted to guitar). So let's work on the problem in two different scenarios: with guitar and without guitar.

 

Let's tackle without guitar first, since that's theoretically easier on venue variables.

 

My ideal scenario is this:

Vocalist sings the female part, which is less than the male part, on HARM1. This means the backup singer is on vocals.

Bassist sings the male part, which is more than the female part, on HARM2. This means the lead singer is on bass.

(Because of the keyboardists inherently stationary role, I can't consider putting the male singer's part on HARM3. That would be too limiting for camera cuts.)

 

Is this even possible? I've managed to have HARM3 sing and lip sync separate from HARM1, but I've only ever made one venue before. I saw a thread discussing something similar to this in which an author can trick the game with clever use of singalong parts. So I think this can be pulled off.

 

"Then just switch the parts, dummy. Make HARM1 the female part and HARM2 the male part. This isn't a big deal."

 

Ah, but if I do that, I still have to make PART VOCALS the male part for solo play... and then the venue gets really, really complicated.

 

So, an alternative: Is it possible to have the vocalist NOT lip sync HARM1? Can I trick it with empty dryvox in those areas? Could I abuse the [idle] flag?

 

I'm pretty much screwed, right?

 

But it gets worse. Now let's assume there is a guitar part present. Hoo-boy...

 

I already have venue events set up that are keyboard focused. Those keys events typically have priority over guitar and bass parts. But I already said the keyboardist is too stationary to have any fun with for a duet. So I'd have to stack guitar and bass events to make sure that player is singing the assigned voice part. But any events I place would have to be devoid of keyboard events, otherwise the keyboard event would overrule the guitar/bass player who sings HARM2's part by default.

 

WHAT SHOULD I DO???


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#2 i0brendan0

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 08:54 AM

So, here's the thing. You want the female part on HARM1 and the male part on HARM2. Just chart accordingly. Chart the female portion in HARM1, then the male in HARM2 (you can't do HARM3 without 3 vocal parts). Depending on what instruments you chart, it will always be either Guitar or Bass that the HARM2 part ends up being. You can have different DryVox audio files. Just make sure you select the guitarist sing along note for the entire duration of the DryVox for HARM2.

So about the DryVox. Vocals always uses the HARM1 DryVox. 5-Lane (GBK) person on the left side (right when facing the band) always uses the HARM2 Dryvox. 5-lane person on the right side (left when facing) always uses the HARM3 DryVox. Drums always use the HARM1 DryVox. You have to manually specify WHEN the person should lip-sync by using the sing along note.
 
I hope this helps. Let me know if you need more explaining.


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#3 atupomaruru

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 09:44 AM

Maybe rearranging parts with MiloMod could help? I don't think the main singer is reassignable from HARM1, but you could try with the help of Part 4, which follows HARM1.

http://customscreato...or-milo-venues/

#4 Atruejedi

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 10:15 AM

Maybe rearranging parts with MiloMod could help? I don't think the main singer is reassignable from HARM1, but you could try with the help of Part 4, which follows HARM1.

http://customscreato...or-milo-venues/

 

...hm! Very creative. And interesting. So how would you tackle this? But before you answer, more importantly: can a CON be recompiled with the altered Milo? I wouldn't expect users to download a custom from the database and do this on their own...

 

I use MiloMod with every custom I download (because I'm a Wii user and keyboards break venues, as Stack's OP says). But I'm only using it for basic conversions... not to alter the HARM assignments.

 

In my fourthcoming custom, I show shots of the drummer singing HARM1 often. But I didn't reassign anything...

 

Are you suggesting I use this to reassign HARM2 and 3 to guitar/bass/keys at my discretion, or to assign HARM4 to part vocals? If that isn't reassignable, would it make a difference?

 

Thanks for the outside-the-box idea! I'm impressed.


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#5 Atruejedi

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 10:18 AM

So, here's the thing. You want the female part on HARM1 and the male part on HARM2. Just chart accordingly. Chart the female portion in HARM1, then the male in HARM2 (you can't do HARM3 without 3 vocal parts). Depending on what instruments you chart, it will always be either Guitar or Bass that the HARM2 part ends up being. You can have different DryVox audio files. Just make sure you select the guitarist sing along note for the entire duration of the DryVox for HARM2.

So about the DryVox. Vocals always uses the HARM1 DryVox. 5-Lane (GBK) person on the left side (right when facing the band) always uses the HARM2 Dryvox. 5-lane person on the right side (left when facing) always uses the HARM3 DryVox. Drums always use the HARM1 DryVox. You have to manually specify WHEN the person should lip-sync by using the sing along note.
 
I hope this helps. Let me know if you need more explaining.

 

I knew all this and it doesn't tackle the problem of what I'd do with solo play. :ohdear: But thanks for responding.

 

BTW, where is that damn custom of Guster's Satellite? I offered to help, you said no, and I've been waiting 8 months. :P


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#6 atupomaruru

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 10:47 AM

...hm! Very creative. And interesting. So how would you tackle this? But before you answer, more importantly: can a CON be recompiled with the altered Milo? I wouldn't expect users to download a custom from the database and do this on their own...
 
I use MiloMod with every custom I download (because I'm a Wii user and keyboards break venues, as Stack's OP says). But I'm only using it for basic conversions... not to alter the HARM assignments.
 
In my fourthcoming custom, I show shots of the drummer singing HARM1 often. But I didn't reassign anything...
 
Are you suggesting I use this to reassign HARM2 and 3 to guitar/bass/keys at my discretion, or to assign HARM4 to part vocals? If that isn't reassignable, would it make a difference?
 
Thanks for the outside-the-box idea! I'm impressed.


Yes, you can use the override function to use the generated milo file when rebuilding in Magma. And the drummer will lipsync HARM1 by default if the "Drummer sing along" note is placed, since the "part 4" that is assigned to the drummer by default will follow HARM1.

Default behavior is as follows:
GB configuration: HARM2 on guitar, HARM3 on bass.
GK configuration: HARM2 on guitar, HARM3 on keys.
BK configuration: HARM2 on keys, HARM3 on bass. (If I recall correctly the Docs have this backwards, but in my custom with no guitar HARM2 got lipsynced by the keyboardist.)

If it would benefit to reassign any of these in your scenario that can be easily done, but I'm not sure how much can be done about HARM1 or the lead vocalist.

#7 Atruejedi

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 11:21 AM

Default behavior is as follows:
BK configuration: HARM2 on keys, HARM3 on bass. (If I recall correctly the Docs have this backwards, but in my custom with no guitar HARM2 got lipsynced by the keyboardist.)

 

Argh, seriously??? Back to testing...

 

[Edit] Confirmed. The documents are wrong. If keys and bass are present, keys does HARM2 and bass does HARM3.

 

Shiiittttt... :argh:


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#8 DemonUnicorns

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 03:59 PM

I have a solution for you.

 

Chart the harmonies however you want it to look in-game. Say you want the vocalist to lipsync HARM2, not HARM1. Ok, so put HARM2 as HARM1 and vice versa. Compile in Magma. Now the characters in-game will sing the way you want, great! Unfortunately now your 3 harmony charts are not correct. Simply change the charts back to how you want them, export the midi, and bundle the new midi with your already compiled file. This will keep the lip sync but update the charts.

 

This is how I got my full band to properly sing Farewell and Goodnight by Smashing Pumpkins. In this song, all 4 band members take turns singing, and I would be damned if I didn't replicate that in-game. See for yourself:



#9 Oddbrother

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 05:53 PM

Agreed with the above. I did the same method with Shiny Toy Guns' "You Are the One".

I've noted the band setup lipsync assignments for documentation. Edits pending.
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#10 Atruejedi

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Posted January 20, 2018 - 08:45 PM

I have a solution for you.
 
Chart the harmonies however you want it to look in-game. Say you want the vocalist to lipsync HARM2, not HARM1. Ok, so put HARM2 as HARM1 and vice versa. Compile in Magma. Now the characters in-game will sing the way you want, great! Unfortunately now your 3 harmony charts are not correct. Simply change the charts back to how you want them, export the midi, and bundle the new midi with your already compiled file. This will keep the lip sync but update the charts.


...You are brilliant. I will definitely try that! I hope the result is as good as yours, because...
 

This is how I got my full band to properly sing Farewell and Goodnight by Smashing Pumpkins. In this song, all 4 band members take turns singing, and I would be damned if I didn't replicate that in-game. See for yourself:


...this is an achievement. Truly. I'm dazzled.
 

Agreed with the above. I did the same method with Shiny Toy Guns' "You Are the One".

I've noted the band setup lipsync assignments for documentation. Edits pending.

 

Thank you! And I will check out that custom! I like STG, but I'm a pretty casual fan and I don't know that one. Soon I will... ;)


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