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What Time Signatures are allowed in-game!?

Tempo Mapping Tempo Map Reaper Time Signature

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#1 GreenPanda12

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 01:01 AM

Basically what the title says!! I'm currently tempo mapping songs for a secret project but I'm not sure of what time signatures the game allows!!

 

Any help would be great!!

 

Thanks!!


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#2 Kloporte

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 01:04 AM

I could be wrong but I don't think there's any time signature the game doesn't accept (I've used plenty of odd time sigs with no problem). However if you use 1/4 you'd have to change the note in the BEAT track to an upbeat so it can compile in Magma.

#3 GreenPanda12

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 01:15 AM

I could be wrong but I don't think there's any time signature the game doesn't accept (I've used plenty of odd time sigs with no problem). However if you use 1/4 you'd have to change the note in the BEAT track to an upbeat so it can compile in Magma.

 

Interesting, I'm currently experimenting with 7/4 and 8/4 so I had to make sure before I carried on!!


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#4 RealCheese

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 02:45 AM

With 8/4 you could just use 4/4 and it would be essentially the same and work fine

#5 Bansheeflyer

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 07:15 AM

With 8/4 you could just use 4/4 and it would be essentially the same and work fine

 

Yeah but if 8/4 works then there's no real reason to use 4/4, is there? :P

 

Rock Band uses the tempo map for highway mapping and animations. As I recall pretty much any time signature works though some of them make animations all screwy.


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#6 GreenPanda12

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 08:04 AM

 

Yeah but if 8/4 works then there's no real reason to use 4/4, is there? :P

 

Rock Band uses the tempo map for highway mapping and animations. As I recall pretty much any time signature works though some of them make animations all screwy.

 

Yeah, I chose to use 8/4 cause of the structure of the song!! That's cool to know, hopefully the animations should be ok!! We'll find out when I test it out!! Thanks for the input guys!! Appreciate it!!


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#7 Farottone

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 10:08 AM

In short, 8/4 doesn't exist. "But...", no it doesn't. "But...", no, the melody can be spread over 2 measures, there's no need to extend a measure just because the melody seems to cover 2 measures. "But...", no, probably only ultramodern avant-garde music justifies irrational signatures and you're not authoring Philip Glass. "But...", no, Rock Band does not give a crap about time signatures except for when the measure should end (mostly for drums, for OD activation) and for OD in general, which is set by BEAT. "But...", ok, I'll bite: name me the most recognisable piece of classical or modern music that officially (meaning the original sheet music says so) is in 8/4.

 

Also, the longer the measure is, the harder you need to work to tempo map the song, because if you extend the measure so much, you can't use Q anymore because it would cover effectively 2 measures and the tempo map will be imprecise.



#8 iammax

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 07:21 PM

I like to think about many riffs as one 8/4 measure instead of two 4/4 measures, but I do acknowledge it's technically incorrect.



#9 Chaotic Haze

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Posted August 11, 2017 - 10:25 PM

In short, 8/4 doesn't exist. "But...", no it doesn't. "But...", no, the melody can be spread over 2 measures, there's no need to extend a measure just because the melody seems to cover 2 measures. "But...", no, probably only ultramodern avant-garde music justifies irrational signatures and you're not authoring Philip Glass. "But...", no, Rock Band does not give a crap about time signatures except for when the measure should end (mostly for drums, for OD activation) and for OD in general, which is set by BEAT. "But...", ok, I'll bite: name me the most recognisable piece of classical or modern music that officially (meaning the original sheet music says so) is in 8/4.

 

Also, the longer the measure is, the harder you need to work to tempo map the song, because if you extend the measure so much, you can't use Q anymore because it would cover effectively 2 measures and the tempo map will be imprecise.

If you believe this about 8/4, whats your opinion on 12/8 compared to 6/8? You can use your same argument towards 12/8, but yet I've seen many original classical songs written in that time signature. 

 

I do believe 8/4 exists, it's just completely useless when writing because it over-complicates things that doesn't need to be over-complicated. The closest thing I would call 8/4 that I could find is Blur's "The Universal," but all of the sheet music written for it is in 4/4 (possibly due to what I said before, just easier to read 4/4)

 

EDIT: Sounds like I'm coming off mean, I'm actually just interested in your opinion and saying my own. Sorry if it does come off insulting.



#10 Farottone

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Posted August 12, 2017 - 12:06 AM

If you believe this about 8/4, whats your opinion on 12/8 compared to 6/8? You can use your same argument towards 12/8, but yet I've seen many original classical songs written in that time signature. 

 

I do believe 8/4 exists, it's just completely useless when writing because it over-complicates things that doesn't need to be over-complicated. The closest thing I would call 8/4 that I could find is Blur's "The Universal," but all of the sheet music written for it is in 4/4 (possibly due to what I said before, just easier to read 4/4)

 

EDIT: Sounds like I'm coming off mean, I'm actually just interested in your opinion and saying my own. Sorry if it does come off insulting.

 

I absolutely didn't read it as mean to be honest. :) This goes back to why we use specific notations. Mathematically 3/4 and 6/8 are identical, however musically they are not. Notation is used to signify meaning in the score: it's needed by those who play it to understand how that piece of music is to be played. So, 3/4 and 6/8 we were saying. God Save the Queen is 3/4, Everybody Wants To Rule The World is 12/8. I don't even have to explain, you instantly understand how they differ so I won't bore anyone with beats, duple/triple meter, etc.

 

Back to 4/4 and 8/4: there is no technical difference whatsoever in meter, beats, accents, upbeat/downbeat, etc. between the 2, at least I have never read once anywhere of any piece of music using 8/4 and an explanation of how 8/4 works as opposed to 4/4. The reason is simple: you are just extending your measure, you're not changing anything. That's why I ask for sheet music of any piece expressly composed in 8/4, because unless the composer wants the piece to be in that notation, there's no reason to assume it's not in 4/4. :)

 

With that said, even if you have music in 8/4, don't do that in Rock Band for the reasons I explained. ;)



#11 mazegeek999

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Posted August 12, 2017 - 08:28 AM

I've heard many examples of music where, for example, there's a section in 7/4 and then they end with an extra beat making the last measure of the section 8/4, but in all the sheet music and tabs I've seen, people write it out as two measures of 4/4, even though it breaks the flow of having X amount of measures per phrase. In my view I would either notate the part out as 4/4+3/4 (or however the 7/4 feels it's subdivided) and then 4/4+4/4; or, 7/4 and then use the 8/4 at the end.

 

As far as consistent 8/4 measures I don't really see it happen, but there is a strange thing with "extended" duple meters in rock music that people never seem to use. Stuff like 8/8 and 2/2 are both very useful when noting how the pulse feels. A lot of times people will just double or halve the tempo at that point in the song where it feels like the song is twice as fast, where depending on the situation it may be a better alternative to express the tempo the same but give a different note value the pulse.

 

I guess that second point is more applicable to Rock Band since changing the tempo does affect the animations, overdrive deployment, and really how the chart looks.



#12 kueller

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Posted August 12, 2017 - 10:35 AM

I've played quite a few 2/4 pieces and there really isn't any difference between that and 4/4 except having a better feel for the downbeat. To me that's a fine enough justification even if it's all irrelevant for Rock Band.



#13 Bansheeflyer

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Posted August 14, 2017 - 05:58 AM

I've played quite a few 2/4 pieces and there really isn't any difference between that and 4/4 except having a better feel for the downbeat.

 

Well yes, that's how music works. If it's 2/4, then there's only two beats per measure. If it's 8/4, it's eight beats per measure. The major difference is 2/4 is actually useful.


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#14 Farottone

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Posted August 14, 2017 - 11:43 AM

 

Well yes, that's how music works. If it's 2/4, then there's only two beats per measure. If it's 8/4, it's eight beats per measure. The major difference is 2/4 is actually useful.

 

Exactly right.



#15 DoNotPassGo

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Posted August 14, 2017 - 01:51 PM

Personally, I strive on the side of charting exactly what the time signature should be, but I understand why it can be done the other way and why a lot of people choose that way. Visually, it can just look better, and really, it only affects the OD usage/deployment.... which again only really matters if you chart things word for word with the documentation.

 

My goto for this is always when I was charting the album version of Rush's Caravan. During the chorus, the time signatures (taken from an interview with Peart) are listed to be:

 

4/4, 6/4, 6/4, 4/4, 6/4, 4/4, 4/4, 4/4, 5/4

 

When Harmonix charted their singles version which released as DLC, they just did all 4/4's with a 3/4 to end it correctly. It adds up the same, and works. Without knowing that, you could easily never see/feel anything wrong when playing it.

 

Personally, if a song is consistently in one time signature for the entire duration, do it right. Mainly because charting a song that is 3/4 in 4/4 means the downbeats for tempo mapping can get visually weird. If a song changes signature, but they stay with the same lower numeral, then you can get away with it. If a song transitions between a x/4 and x/8 time, things can get weird if they aren't even (ie, Rush's La Villa Strangiato fluctuates between mostly 4/4 and 7/8. 7/8 get's weird to work with if you don't use it right).







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Tempo Mapping, Tempo Map, Reaper, Time Signature

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