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How do the f&%^ you get such precise Tempo Maps?


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#1 expertwin

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 03:46 AM

I can’t for the life of me figure out how the hell you get a precise tempo map in customs, like one that goes 120.34 BPM, 121.2 BPM, 119.79 BPM, etc. As far I can tell, 120 and 121 BPM may as well be the same BPM. This a problem for me, especially because I can’t find a MIDI of the song I want to author (One and the Same – Selena Gomez and Demi Levato) so I have to author by ear.



#2 Chaotic Haze

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 05:01 AM

http://pksage.com/rb...Setup#Tempo_Map

 

This can make it pretty accurate, though you might find the tempo you get from this method might change from measure to measure. I'd watch pksage's video about authoring if you haven't already, super helpful.



#3 StackOverflow0x

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 05:05 AM

I think such precision may not be entire necessary, but do keep in mind the actual BPM of the song. That usually means listening for cues that help keep you on beat like listening for the upbeat and downbeat, and how usually drum snares on 2s and 4s, and crash cymbals on 1.You have many ways to tempo map, but all that matters is that you get the gridlines to match up with the important peaks, then readjust when they start to drift away.



#4 Alternity

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 06:07 AM

I usually try to find the snare or the bass drum wave so I know what it looks like and sync the MIDI from there. There are obvious exceptions where there's so much noise it's difficult to see; then you can use the help of the metronome. There's alot of ways to achieve tempo mapping.



#5 Sweatr

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 06:25 AM

https://songbpm.com/  helps , not always 100% accurate but its a good starting point



#6 Farottone

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 11:47 AM

1 BPM is an eternity in tempo mapping terms. Here is how a proper mapped measure looks like at 84.8BPM
MMCo4Rr.jpg

Here is how the same measure looks like like at 86PM, slightly more than 1 BPM faster
8lkJOl5.jpg

See all that space between peaks and grid lines? THAT's how 1 BPM looks like. ;)

#7 TheSheepQueen

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 11:57 AM

I also use this database: https://www.cs.ubc.c.../bpm/index.html

Not a lot of songs but still give a more accurate BPM



#8 Farottone

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Posted December 27, 2016 - 12:58 PM

I also use this database: https://www.cs.ubc.c.../bpm/index.html
Not a lot of songs but still give a more accurate BPM


Right, but this is literally only for the first marker, that's it. And even the first marker will be wrong-ish. Unless the song is obscure, a MIDI will do wonders *for the first marker's ballpark*.

#9 Chips

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Posted December 28, 2016 - 01:11 AM

I dunno man, I'm not a master of tempo mapping by any means but I just line up my cursor and hit q when I see a peak that seems to match up with the start of the next measure and then listen with the metronome turned on to make sure it sounds synced up. Some of you will turn your nose up at this, but I'll add that there's certain songs, especially in electronic music, where you can set a static bpm and the song will line up near-perfectly for you. You do have to find the exact bpm the song is played in however. My customs for Milk Lizard and both of my Meshuggah songs were almost entirely "mapped" like this, because both bands stuck to a rigid metronome in 4/4 for the most part. For finding a song's bpm on your own in any case, just use tap tempo for a few seconds.

 

You also have to map with snap-to-grid turned off, of course. You can't get precise markers otherwise.



#10 Bansheeflyer

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Posted December 28, 2016 - 02:03 AM

On that note a lot of 80s music used drum machines so it makes tempo mapping a breeze because if you can find the precise tempo (it's usually not exact - the drum machine is set to 130 BPM but imperfections make it closer to 130.224 BPM) and it helps a lot.

 

Otherwise, yeah. Peaks. That's about it as long as you understand the time signature of the song. I usually just use tap the tempo for a good ballpark estimate which usually gives you the idea of what the tempo is supposed to be and use "Q" to fine-tune it. If something looks wrong, chances are it probably is.

 

Tempo map is the most important step. I don't mind a few notes mischarted or even a lack of lower difficulties but an incorrect tempo map is game-breaking. 'Cause, you know, it's a rhythm game.

 

Also piece of advice, don't start with garage rock. I have yet to find a garage rock band that understands what consistent tempo is.


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#11 StackOverflow0x

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Posted December 28, 2016 - 05:06 AM

 

You also have to map with snap-to-grid turned off, of course. You can't get precise markers otherwise.

Eh, I feel like this would get annoying later on if you forget to turn it back on. You can just Ctrl+Click the time bar at the top near the triangle cursor to get the cursor on a position not snapped to the grid. That way you get both behaviors whenever you want.



#12 undergroundmonorail

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Posted December 28, 2016 - 05:17 AM

I've only completed one custom (and no one's said anything about the tempo map so maybe it sucks lmao) but here's what I've learned:

 

This video by pksage is great. It goes through the entire customs process but a lot of it is tempo mapping. It was absurdly helpful to me to watch someone else do it once, just so I knew what it would look like. He starts with a song chosen specifically for the tutorial, which is really easy to make a tempo map for, but he does an example with a less trivial song as well.

 

The other thing is that this line:

 

This a problem for me, especially because I can’t find a MIDI of the song I want to author (One and the Same – Selena Gomez and Demi Levato) so I have to author by ear.

 

is troubling to me. Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding based on what other users of these forums have said is that authoring by ear is always a necessity. No MIDI you'll find will ever have a tempo map accurate enough for what we want to do with it.



#13 Chips

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Posted December 29, 2016 - 12:17 AM

Eh, I feel like this would get annoying later on if you forget to turn it back on. You can just Ctrl+Click the time bar at the top near the triangle cursor to get the cursor on a position not snapped to the grid. That way you get both behaviors whenever you want.

 

That's good to know, I had no idea that was possible. 

 

 

I've only completed one custom (and no one's said anything about the tempo map so maybe it sucks lmao)

 

Sometimes, on this website, the best feedback is no feedback  ;)



#14 cafmaster

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Posted January 5, 2017 - 03:07 AM

I'm working on my first custom and I tried a trick I used to do some years ago to find the BPM of a song and it worked on the one i'm doing so here it goes. The old nero 8 has a tool for wave editing called Nero Wave Editor. Get that program and open the song in it. In the tools tab you'll fine one that says Time Correction. Select the whole song using ctrl+a and go there it gives you 2 options: percentage and BPM. click percentage and move it around a little and set it at 100... underneath in BPM you will find the number the program received from the file when it rendered it during the import. accurate enough to be used, and you can edit the song to trim it and all. 



#15 TheSheepQueen

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Posted January 8, 2017 - 10:30 AM

Right, but this is literally only for the first marker, that's it. And even the first marker will be wrong-ish. Unless the song is obscure, a MIDI will do wonders *for the first marker's ballpark*.

I agree some of these are not efficient, but on certain Huey Lewis and Peter Gabriel songs I'm doing, the given BPM is pretty accurate through the whole song!

Maybe because they both use a drum machine...



#16 Farottone

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Posted January 8, 2017 - 11:42 AM

I agree some of these are not efficient, but on certain Huey Lewis and Peter Gabriel songs I'm doing, the given BPM is pretty accurate through the whole song!

Maybe because they both use a drum machine...

 

They use one decimal in the DB: I don't think I have ever seen a song have a fixed BPM throughout only as precise as one decimal point. It's a good starting point if you have trouble coming up with the ballpark BPM yourself, but even songs with a fixed BPM rate (which are rare) usually need a precision of more than one decimal.






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