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New Idea For Keys In Keyless Songs

new really good idea

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Poll: Opinions (Read Post First) (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Is this a Good Idea?

  1. Yes (10 votes [35.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

  2. No. (18 votes [64.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 64.29%

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#1 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 02:49 AM

Hello people of C3
 
First off, I want to say initial credit for this goes to Fat Ha1p3rt, for he put a ton of work into implementing it for himself. He told me, I thought it was great and I then asked if I could discuss it on the forums and see if we could get some opinions on it, and he somehow agreed which was pretty stupid because most people on here probably hate me, right?? Right???   ;)
 
I understand it's possibly something some users may or may not have already thought about, and I apologise if it's been posted and I've missed it. If you're thinking "hey I thought of this too!" then well done you, have some credit and a cookie and vote accordingly :D
 
Ok, crap jokes and banter aside, the idea is this:
 
Duplicating Guitar tracks on songs without a Keys/Pro Keys or Rhythm Guitar part to revoke the need for Keyboardist dropouts.
 
While it has many uses, what stands out to me is this:
  •  
  • It would allow the usual Bass player to play against the Guitar player in a sort of homemade "score duel" mode (as they will be playing the exact same thing), except the rest of the band can still play too. In this instance the Keys Player could fill in for Bass. Or you can do w/e you want with it.
  • Fun
Also, it will not interfere with any of Rock Band's existing functioning or mechanics, as it will only add to songs without any Keys part at all (Rhythm Guitar versions will be untouched).
 
If every song in an individual's library had this feature implemented, there would not be mix-ups with songs with Rhythm Guitar parts or songs with Pro Keys, since Rhythm Guitar parts are denoted in the song title and Pro Keys songs can be identified by the difficulty dots on the "Pro Keys" section of the song info.
 
I figured it has as good a chance as anything to be picked up as a cool idea you guys might officially unofficially implement, since you guys came up with the whole Rhythm Guitar thing, which is obviously an original C3 idea. The only caveat I can think of is it may cause some confusion when it is first implemented for people unfamiliar with the concept would need to be "debriefed" and told why songs without Keys or Rhythm Guitar parts now have Keys tracks, since I don't think a denotation in the song title should be added.
 
As for implementation, Ha1p3rt kindly offered to write a quick guide on the quickest ways to duplicate the Guitar onto PART KEYS by hand, although I really hope this would appeal to the likes of Nemo and Farotone, so that they might consider adding to CON Tools or coding a simple standalone program to do the heavy lifting for people if enough of us like the idea (and of course only if you guys want to ;)).
 
Seriously, honestly think about it. I think it has a huge potential fun factor, and whether or not you guys decide to implement it properly, or write a quick program to do it to song batches for some of us, I'll likely be adding them to all mine anyway. 
 
For me, it's a no-brainer. But it would be wicked if other people like the idea and it enhances their Rock Band experience too.
 
TL;DR: The post asks (if there is high enough demand) if we (those of us who'd use it) can have a program to quickly duplicate guitar tracks onto PART KEYS so those of us who frequently play Full Band or AIM would not have to keep dropping out the keys player.

To Clarify: Nothing as it stands in terms of the database or customs is to change - this is merely a feature for those who would like it.

Any replies (discussion/feedback/criticism/mindless screaming) is welcome and appreciated.

#2 TrojanNemo

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 03:30 AM

That's a no from me. I'm fairly sure I know farottone's view on this but I'll let him tell you.

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#3 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 03:44 AM

That's a no from me. I'm fairly sure I know farottone's view on this but I'll let him tell you.

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Yes! A whole 30 minutes before being shot down. I love it :D

 

 

Is there a reason why at all?



#4 TrojanNemo

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 03:48 AM

Because I don't like the idea of putting the wrong instrument on a track, or faking instruments, and so I'm not spending any of my time on that project.

#5 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 03:53 AM

Because I don't like the idea of putting the wrong instrument on a track, or faking instruments, and so I'm not spending any of my time on that project.

 

Rhythm Guitar? 



#6 TrojanNemo

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 03:56 AM

You might want to stop and research who you are antagonizing here before you piss me off.
Rhythm guitar is an actual instrument. It's charted to keys track because we have no choice. You're suggesting copy pasting guitar to keys just for the fuck of it. Not the same. I'm not interested. End of discussion for me. You can do whatever you like. But it's not going to be on my tools.

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#7 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 03:58 AM

You ok?

 

I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, I'm sorry if it comes off like that, what's with the hostility?



#8 Fat Ha1p3rt

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:04 AM

My initial idea was to just have duplicated guitar versions of key-less songs offered in the same manner as rhythm versions or 2x bass pedal or RB2 custom versions of songs. It would just be like one of those. I wouldn't need a tool to do it, I've just been doing them by hand.

To avoid the impression of "faking" it, I just use the lighter review system in the game to separate my songs into 2 groups: real keys and duplicated guitar. That way there isn't confusion when I play with friends or at parties. It just allows 5 instruments to be played with every song so I don't have to cut my library in half just because someone wants to use the keyboard.

Again, it's just an idea that I wanted to share with the community. I've already finished upgrading my whole library so I won't be offended if no one is interested.

#9 Gigakoops

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:23 AM

I'm going to say that I myself will not be doing this for my own customs. I like to try and make my customs seem as close to official as I can, and something like that would take from that a bit, I feel. I wouldn't be too upset seeing others doing this, though, as long as they made it clear somehow (if they disable pro keys for the custom, it should be clear to me at least).



#10 Fat Ha1p3rt

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:29 AM

I'm going to say that I myself will not be doing this for my own customs. I like to try and make my customs seem as close to official as I can, and something like that would take from that a bit, I feel. I wouldn't be too upset seeing others doing this, though, as long as they made it clear somehow (if they disable pro keys for the custom, it should be clear to me at least).


I totally respect that. I also wouldn't expect anyone to do this for their own customs, I would do it for them if they so desired. As for pro keys, they would be disabled.

#11 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:31 AM

-



#12 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:37 AM


-



#13 Distressed Ping

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 09:00 AM

You ok?
 
I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, I'm sorry if it comes off like that, what's with the hostility?


I think the admin was a bit OTT here. Take no notice.

#14 Farottone

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 09:45 AM

It's not something we would allow in the database. As Nemo touched upon, those songs have technically the wrong chart on track Keys. If you want to find songs with keys on the database, you don't want to find yourself with a song that doesn't have keys but another instrument arbitrarily mapped to keys. Same for when you play locally. By the way, this already came up in the past and we asked the users who did so to pull those versions

 

I personally understand the added value of having all players play something in every song, but it's a matter of individual users adding those versions to their own systems. I would see no problems in example in having an alternate link in the notes in a DB record. But as far as adding them to the DB, no, that was already addressed months ago.



#15 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 02:48 PM

Farotone that is an excellent reason for why this is a bad idea that I didn't think of, thank you.

I'll add to the post for clarification, since I also disagree with adding them to the database, I thought that the ideal way to add something like this would be in like a small program or something, so if other people caught on and liked the idea (I'm sure I'm not the only person annoyed by having to drop out as keys when in a full band and a song has no keys part) then they could add these duplicate parts to batches of their songs or something.

And obviously, since I have extremely limited programming knowledge I was suggesting/asking that you guys might consider writing one. I think maybe it was a bit direct, but I didn't mean it rudely, sorry if I offended either of you two

Also admittedly I didn't have a thorough search, but I couldn't find anything on the same issue already posted - I'll check some more.

I think this'll be the last time I try and inject a little light humour into my forum posts, because it's not going down well - my fault.

#16 Farottone

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:48 PM

That was a pretty buried discussion so I'm not surprised you didn't find it. Not sure why you feel like people hate you or find you not funny, I've not read anything that points to that. ;)

 

Anyway, I would see a use for a tool to do this, definitely, but I'm not sure how many people here beside Nemo have the expertise to do so.



#17 nineteenforever

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Posted September 5, 2016 - 04:56 PM

Haha thanks, Yeh that last bit wasn't meant to sound so self pitied, just trying to chill about it lol :D

I actually think I'll look into it myself, because it seems to be a really simple program.

It's obviously highly likely I'm underestimating the whole thing, but nevertheless I'll give it a go.

I have a good grasp of programming's absolute basics and functioning, and it'd be a good way to expand my skills in that area, since I've always wanted to do something programming related.

#18 Veitli

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Posted September 9, 2016 - 04:00 AM

I say go for it. Keyboard dropping in and out between songs made it so I never even plug the thing in anyway. I always just pick keytar if it's harder than guitar. I'm on PS3 and the upgrades are a little more complicated so I wouldn't do it for all the songs, but I think it sounds like a fun idea.

#19 samjjones

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Posted September 9, 2016 - 01:55 PM

I understand the point OP is making.  But also understand Nemo's "traditionalist" position.  (For the record, I kinda fall in the "traditionalist" camp, too)

I don't like using blanket generalizations, but I think most active authors here *typically* try to render charts as "faithfully" as they can (well, as "faithfully" as one can do dumbing down musical notation into 5-button combinations).  That means only charting instruments which actually appear in the song, etc.

 

On the other hand, the beauty about customization is that you can do whatever the heck you want.  If you want to duplicate guitar midi tracks into part KEYS...hey...go for it!  C3 has already provided the tools to allow you to do this.  I don't think you should expect C3 developers to spend time building *more* tools to help with this (they've already done enough, and some have moved onto other pursuits in life), so you have to respect that stance, too.

 

Personally...if I know people are coming over who are going to want to play full-band (including keys)...I'll typically formulate a setlist (or load up the USB stick) with songs that I know have interesting parts for everybody.  Sometimes, even limiting the choices for your guests can help provide for a more immersive play experience.  Don't give them the option to debate picking a song that only has vox and guitar in the first place, perhaps.

 

Anyways, good luck with whatever you choose to do.  If you end up building out a new tool to quickly extract/duplicate instrumental parts/rebuild CON, then please feel free to share it here.  This community is all about selflessly sharing and trying to give back.







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