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So...That UK...


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#41 Farottone

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 12:26 PM

Wanted to stay out of the whole conversation, but honestly couldn't help myself after reading that. You should try to take at least some interest in politics, because comparing Brexit to slavery shows Trump-level ignorance, at best, and is insulting on so many levels it's painful to read.

 

The slavery comparison is way out of line, but the rest of the comment is accurate. Frankly, I'm surprised how little mention is being made of 1776: this is LITERALLY half of the people who voted in the UK saying "no taxation without representation".



#42 samjjones

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 01:38 PM

the UK was somewhat of an odd member of the EU (they were neither in the Eurozone nor the Schengen area), being out will probably increase their immmigration-related issues, partially impact their financial services driven economy and lead to the political implosion of their country, but hey, you gonna reap what you sowed.

Never mind the Brexit...here's the Sex Pistols.



#43 Ollie

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 01:51 PM

The slavery comparison is way out of line, but the rest of the comment is accurate. Frankly, I'm surprised how little mention is being made of 1776: this is LITERALLY half of the people who voted in the UK saying "no taxation without representation".

Are you talking about the "But the cost of freedom and independence is always worth it" part, because to me it's directly linked to that very inapt comparison with slavery and not the 1776 independance (which concerned the UK as well...).

As for the no taxation/no representation part, considering how the EU has no direct taxation powers, how the UK had negociated very favorable financial terms (rebates on its contribution to the general EU budget so that its net contribution equals roughly 0,5% of its GDP, refusal of the future financial transaction tax, among others...), how the European Commission & Council have been under heavy pressure of the deregulatory/free market school of economics the UK heavily influenced and profited from, and how the EU budget is voted by the EU parliament which contain UK members, with full representation and voting rights (despite the fact that the UK was not part of the Euro, not part of the Schengen area, and was the "poodle" of the US as far as foreign policy and military are concerned, often turning its back to the rest of Europe on these issues), and you'll understand it seems far-fetched to me and a bit too theoretical/ideological to think that's the issue here. 

As a matter of fact, I imagine that the slogan is well-known in the UK and to my knowledge no one dared (or cared) to use it during the campaign, not even Farage who is prone to use it from time to time at the EU parliament. Ironically.

But it would be way more pertinent for our Norwegian friends... or for the British expats/EU citizens living in the UK who couldn't vote for the EU referendum despite paying their taxes in the UK.
 


Never mind the Brexit...here's the Sex Pistols.

 

The funny thing is that "Anarchy in the UK" was probably the most used newspaper title all over Europe this week. They made the Sex Pistols relevant again ! 



#44 Farottone

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 02:38 PM

As for the no taxation/no representation part, considering how the EU has no direct taxation powers, how the UK had negociated very favorable financial terms (rebates on its contribution to the general EU budget so that its net contribution equals roughly 0,5% of its GDP, refusal of the future financial transaction tax, among others...), how the European Commission & Council have been under heavy pressure of the deregulatory/free market school of economics the UK heavily influenced and profited from, and how the EU budget is voted by the EU parliament which contain UK members, with full representation and voting rights (despite the fact that the UK was not part of the Euro, not part of the Schengen area, and was the "poodle" of the US as far as foreign policy and military are concerned, often turning its back to the rest of Europe on these issues), and you'll understand it seems far-fetched to me and a bit too theoretical/ideological to think that's the issue here! 

 

The UK is in the group of nations that contribute more than they spend. You can call it "contribution", but the concept is the same: moeny goes from the UK to the EU to be redistributed to other nations.



#45 Ollie

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 05:37 PM

 

The UK is in the group of nations that contribute more than they spend. You can call it "contribution", but the concept is the same: moeny goes from the UK to the EU to be redistributed to other nations.

Yeah the UK are net contributors to the EU budget (ie the UK gives more than it receives), but that's the case for every big country in the EU, so I fail to see your point here, especially since the UK's paying significantly less than what it should (and we're talking 5 billions €/year of net contribution for the UK, which is pretty much peanuts).

In exchange, it had free access to the european market without internal tarriffs (UK complained a lot about common agricultural policies, let's see how its agricultural sector will fare by itself to feed the country), had most economic policies of the Union tailored made (see the status of the London Stock Exchange for instance, who's allowed to trade freely in Euros, freely merge with Frankfurt SE and the like...) and was allowed to cherry pick what part of the treaties it wanted to follow or not.

Where they banned or had limited voting rights in the European Council, the Commission or the Parliament ? Nope, nope and nope.

So the UK paid less, had the same representative rights as the others (UK citizens last voted for their european representatives 2 years ago, I don't think they have forgotten) and was pretty much allowed to do what it felt like. Terrible deal, I totally get why it wanted out.



#46 Farottone

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 06:09 PM

Yeah the UK are net contributors to the EU budget

 

There you go, so you get my point. :) Those who pay sometimes get tired of paying and having to comply to rules mainly pushed by those who don't pay. Not sure why you're so angry too: if the UK was paying so little and they had so many advantages, why do you care that they want out? Any member can review its position, what's a problem with a nation leaving the union?



#47 Bansheeflyer

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Posted July 1, 2016 - 06:37 PM

Any member can review its position, what's a problem with a nation leaving the union?


The 1860s US can probably answer that question.

I know I know very different circumstances, just giving you crap. :b

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#48 Ollie

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Posted July 2, 2016 - 12:26 AM

 

There you go, so you get my point. :) Those who pay sometimes get tired of paying and having to comply to rules mainly pushed by those who don't pay. Not sure why you're so angry too: if the UK was paying so little and they had so many advantages, why do you care that they want out? Any member can review its position, what's a problem with a nation leaving the union?

I got your point the first time about the fact that they're "giving" money, mate. Like Germany, like France, like Italy... But like I said, they paid and did less than the others (others who're actually paying for the rebate they got, btw) but managed to leverage what they gave to push the rules their way (thus making the whole no taxation without representation point pretty invalid imo). The UK never had to comply to anything it didn't want to, and especially not to rules that would have been made by countries that "receive" money, ie the eastern European countries who joined the Union way after the moment the main rules have been set. 

I'm not especially angry or bitter about the exit by itself, I simply hope than it will be dealt with properly : if you want to be all by yourself, be my guest, but don't compain if we, continental europeans, don't want to give you free access to the single market you so wanted or solve for you the refugee issues you contributed to create by your actions (still looking for those nuclear weapons Saddam had, Tony ?) without any kind of fair compensation.

 

The brexit proponents said (and seem to believe) that everything should continue the way it was, minus the money the UK gave : sorry for the pro EU Britons, but the brexit needs to and will impact the UK first and foremost. Because if the UK waltzs freely out of that mess, it would be a terrible blow to the Union that would have dire consequences on all other european countries, including mine. And THAT would piss me off.

And once again, I'm far from being a fan of the way the EU works, but I feel like the UK showed up uninvited to a party I made with my friends with a pack of hot Stella Artois, emptied the fridge, tried to make out with our GF/BF, picked up crappy music all night long, pucked everywhere and left drunk at 4am without thanking anyone. I'm pretty relieved if I never have to deal with him again and I sure hope Mr UK didn't destroy the concept of partying, even if some of my parties sucked.



#49 nineteenforever

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Posted July 2, 2016 - 01:53 AM

Sorry mate, I had way too much to drink :/

Btw took me way too long to figure out by "pucked" you meant "puked".

Just for fun I googled it anyway (in case it was some strange slang) and found a hockey erotic novel, so that's something.



#50 Farottone

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Posted July 2, 2016 - 02:05 AM

And once again, I'm far from being a fan of the way the EU works, but I feel like the UK showed up uninvited to a party I made with my friends with a pack of hot Stella Artois, emptied the fridge

 

I'm sorry but which one is it then? Is the UK a leech that you are happy to finally see gone from the EU? Or is the UK an important contributor to the Union that you are angry to see leave? You can't be unhappy to see a leech go or wish that a leech remained in the Union.



#51 nineteenforever

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Posted July 2, 2016 - 02:09 AM

I think he was saying that he'd be mad if they had to sort out the mess made during the wars while Tony Blair was PM (because that's what Brexit thinks should happen).




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