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Uh oh, Kem is trying to Tempo Map again! - A New Attempt

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#1 Kemiroch

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Posted October 21, 2015 - 07:20 PM

And as usual, is mucking it up.

 

This time I got to about measure 30 or so before it all went to hell.

 

Could some very helpful person please let me know where I went wrong so I can get back on track? 

 

Here is the project: Project

 

Thanks.

 

Hopefully someday I will figure this stupid thing out and can quit asking for help  :sigh:


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#2 anglebracket

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Posted October 21, 2015 - 11:15 PM

looks like you've been marking BPM changes on the second beat of each measure rather than the first, which might be throwing you off. i suggest starting over from the beginning, making sure to place markers on the downbeats. for reference, the first snare hit in the song is on the second beat of the measure.


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#3 Kemiroch

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Posted October 22, 2015 - 04:13 PM

So, let me see if I am understanding you properly. I've been putting my bpm markers on the second beat when I should be putting it on the first. So is it the marker at measure 4 (second measure of the actual song) that is what threw me off afterwards? That one is one beat too late? And if I start over and do that one properly, the rest should turn out better?

 

Thanks.


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#4 Farottone

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Posted October 22, 2015 - 05:00 PM

I respectfully disagree with anglebracket. Well, of course he's right, you're one beat off as he said but you're off for 2 other reasons. The first one is that you've broken a cardinal rule: unless there is an extremely noticeable change in tempo, your BPMs should be similar for the whole song, while you chose to author the first measure at 108BPM instead of 122. Set the first BPM at 3.1.00 at 122, move the audio so that the track begins exactly at 3.1.50 (the audio itself, the first peak, not the silence before it). Now you have fixed issue #1 AND you have fixed the issue anglebracket pointed out (you will still need to go back at fix all markers before 3.1 to be 122BPMs so that your count in sounds fine).

 

The second issue is very simple: sloppyness. ;) Using your original file for reference, the peak at 0:51.875 should be at 28.1 (slow down the BPM marker @ 27.1) and the two measures after that drift even more, so the peak at 0:55.812 should be at M30.1.00 instead of M30.1.33. Now, keep in mind these remarks are based on your reference file, so FIRST check these to know what I'm talking about, take it on board, realign everything as I suggested and then with precise aligment of the peaks in mind proceed.



#5 anglebracket

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Posted October 22, 2015 - 06:20 PM

i should have been more clear; i assumed fixing the downbeat issue would help to fix the 108BPM problem. my bad! :sweatdrop:


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#6 Kemiroch

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Posted October 22, 2015 - 06:45 PM

 

 

The second issue is very simple: sloppyness. ;)

I don't think it's so much sloppiness as me just not knowing what I'm doing :) I will try what you've suggested and return once I have done so.

 

Thanks.


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#7 Kemiroch

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Posted October 28, 2015 - 07:53 PM

 

 

The second issue is very simple: sloppyness. ;) Using your original file for reference, the peak at 0:51.875 should be at 28.1 (slow down the BPM marker @ 27.1) and the two measures after that drift even more, so the peak at 0:55.812 should be at M30.1.00 instead of M30.1.33. Now, keep in mind these remarks are based on your reference file, so FIRST check these to know what I'm talking about, take it on board, realign everything as I suggested and then with precise aligment of the peaks in mind proceed.

So I am looking at these spots right now (on my reference file)and ... I don't see peaks at these times. Certainly not the BIG peaks, which I thought were what I should be looking for. Am I doing this all wrong?


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#8 Farottone

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Posted October 28, 2015 - 08:03 PM

So I am looking at these spots right now (on my reference file)and ... I don't see peaks at these times. Certainly not the BIG peaks, which I thought were what I should be looking for. Am I doing this all wrong?

 

Maybe, the peak is pretty clear to see if you put the marker where I suggested you do and there's a 60ms long depression before that, so the peak stands out.



#9 Kemiroch

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Posted October 28, 2015 - 08:15 PM

Ok here is what I get when I look at that first time you point out:

 

5gYfPQ7.png

 

Please explain what I should be seeing as if I am little baby :)

 

I can't make customs if I cannot somehow learn to understand this fundamental, but oh so hard to grasp, concept  :qq:


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#10 Farottone

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Posted October 28, 2015 - 09:08 PM

That's not your original file, you must have already realigned the audio.



#11 Kemiroch

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 12:49 PM

That's not your original file, you must have already realigned the audio.

Hmm. Well I certainly don't remember doing so... I suppose it could have happened accidentally. I will redownload my reference file and look at it again.


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#12 Kemiroch

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 07:08 PM

So I redownloaded my original file and these points still don't seem to line up. You said I should check that file BEFORE I move anything right?


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#13 Kemiroch

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 07:17 PM

"move the audio so that the track begins exactly at 3.1.50 (the audio itself, the first peak, not the silence before it)."

 

 

Also I just noticed this. Why am I placing the first peak at 3.1.50 instead of 3.1.00?


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#14 Farottone

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 07:57 PM

Repost the RPP and I'll check why it's not aligned. You start at M3.1.50 because the song doesn't start on a down beat.



#15 Kemiroch

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 08:08 PM

Repost the RPP and I'll check why it's not aligned. You start at M3.1.50 because the song doesn't start on a down beat.

I see. I assume I still put markers at subsequent downbeats? This is probably what got me off track in the first place.

 

I think I will take another whack at it now that I know this, and post a new project for review after that.

 

Thanks for the help!


Check out Kem's Customs! Featuring The Sounds, The Donnas, George Thorogood, and The Rolling Stones.

 

WIPs.

 

Collaboration Thread!


#16 Farottone

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 08:27 PM

I see. I assume I still put markers at subsequent downbeats? This is probably what got me off track in the first place.

 

I think I will take another whack at it now that I know this, and post a new project for review after that.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

No, I don't think that threw you off as I said. All went fine until you started drifing by 60ms per measure. ;)



#17 Kemiroch

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 08:51 PM

 

No, I don't think that threw you off as I said. All went fine until you started drifing by 60ms per measure. ;)

Well here is my newest attempt:

 

http://www.mediafire...mHaleStopTx.rar

 

I only got to measure 7 this time before a missing peak destroyed my faith in humanity.

 

Maybe tempo mapping is just beyond my ability to understand :(


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#18 Farottone

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Posted October 29, 2015 - 11:43 PM

Are you using the metronome or not?



#19 Kemiroch

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Posted October 30, 2015 - 12:14 PM

Are you using the metronome or not?

This particular attempt was not made using the metronome.


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#20 Kemiroch

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Posted October 30, 2015 - 07:47 PM

So, I have come to the conclusion that this particular song is too difficult for me to tempo map at my current 'skill' level, so I have put it on hiatus for the moment.

 

In the meantime I'm going to try practicing with simpler songs to see if I can get that magic 'Oh yeah!' moment where I start to understand it. In that vein, here is my newest attempt:

 

Project

 

I am about halfway through it, and it seems to be going pretty smoothly (which terrifies me). I am using the metronome this time.

 

Something doesn't 'feel' quite right even though it 'seems' to be going ok, so I figured I had better post it before I get too far, in case I have fudged it somehow.

 

EDIT: Here is the whole map:

 

RPP

 

It gets lost near the end (or at least that is where I noticed it). Not sure why.


Check out Kem's Customs! Featuring The Sounds, The Donnas, George Thorogood, and The Rolling Stones.

 

WIPs.

 

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