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Discussion: "Buried" Keys/PK parts


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If C3 decides to remove this from future customs I personally will be ok with that, even happy if its preventing certain songs from being released.

this!

 

Double-this!

 

Triplet!

 

Quadr...tetra...sigh. Also this.

 

No this.

 

 

I want keys even if it only has one part in the song and nothing else ( Live And Learn , etc. ) but considering the topic I would want keys no matter how major or minor it is in the song.

 

Hopefully we will get keys for C3 songs no matter what ( my friend who plays keys will be unbelievably happy ) and the harmonies project will make some songs ACTULLY full band ( I'm looking right at you The Final Countdown and Don't Stop Believing ( GO HARMONIES PROJECT!) . Right at ya. ).

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I think you and a few other posters have missed the point entirely.

We are not discussing "this song has Keys but they're hard and I don't want to chart them" or "going forward C3 songs won't have keys at all."

We are discussing "this song has Keys that can't be charted, and the options are release without Keys or don't release at all."

 

So your choice seems to be "if Keys can't be charted, don't release it at all." Is that what you're saying?

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We are discussing "this song has Keys that can't be charted, and the options are release without Keys or don't release at all."

 

Which by the way is our current stance. We are currently withholding a number of songs (not too many, but some of those very, very popular) because they are ready to hit playtesting but keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them. Just to make it clear to the other users, the question was then what should we do with those and with anything in the future fitting the description.

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Ummmmmmmmmm. No but there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard? Is there? I'd say release but no keys ( i'm gonna' have a sad keys player for sure ).

I just wish we could have keys for every song with them , wouldn't you agree?

 

So remember I said release with no keys and maybe we're gonna' get some Genesis!

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Ummmmmmmmmm. No but there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard? Is there?
keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them.

 

 

Are you trying to say I should try or you are going to try? If you are going to try...

 

WE ARE FINALLY GETTING KEYS FOR THESE BABIES!

 

Then again I can always be wrong. Let's hope your that user willing to do so.

 

God bless the Earth.

 

EDIT: I just saw that you meant mine and Farottone's reasons are drastically different.

 

Oh well. Guess that means no Genesis. :ohdear:

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i don't know how you grossly misunderstood the post.

 

You don't read the forums enough. :)

haha this made me chuckle, the OP was quite clear on what this discussion was about....and yet :what: lol

 

Crazycoolcat5, as PKsage and numerous people in this thread has mentioned, if the keys are an integral part of the song ala "Final Countdown", "Rocketman" C3 WILL <- read, chart the keys and I presume Genesis should fall into this category, or at least the ones I've heard, its just the songs where keys are either inaudible and/or pointless may not be charted going forward, that's it.

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Crazycoolcat5, as PKsage and numerous people in this thread has mentioned, if the keys are an integral part of the song ala "Final Countdown", "Rocketman" C3 WILL

 

Yeah, I can't think of many Genesis songs, if any, that have buried piano parts.

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We are discussing "this song has Keys that can't be charted, and the options are release without Keys or don't release at all."

 

Which by the way is our current stance. We are currently withholding a number of songs (not too many, but some of those very, very popular) because they are ready to hit playtesting but keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them. Just to make it clear to the other users, the question was then what should we do with those and with anything in the future fitting the description.

 

I'm of the opinion that holding back a song for a feature that may never get added doesn't help anyone. Some way should be found to get them out to the rabid playerbase. A couple of off-the-top-of-my-head ideas:

 

-Release them as is. Probably not the best way as it would compromise the C3 standard.

 

-Release them as a 'beta test' or 'open source'. Perhaps this could help flush out a forum member who loves the song and could help add whatever is missing. Not the best plan either, for myriad reasons.

 

-Release them under a new line, something akin to funky's 'Rough Cuts' or an artist's 'bootleg' collection. Perhaps just in a sticky forum thread in 'Other Customs' even. This way they're done, no more messing around with outside of a miraculous 'From the Vault' release if something happens to come together later.

 

I would say the third option strikes me as the most reasonable. Of course, I wouldn't try to make songs for the Bootleg releases, but if something is floating in limbo for a certain length of time statute of limitations kicks in and it auto-bootlegs.

 

Just my thoughts. I'd rather have songs than not.

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I'm of the opinion that holding back a song for a feature that may never get added doesn't help anyone.

 

That's the reason we have started the dialogue. This is our second year, and some among us when we started this thought we probably wouldn't have made it past July 2013. We don't discuss download numbers but we actually are still going strong. Why have we managed to reach month #15 of our experience? Probably because we started with a goal: replicating the original experience of the Harmonix DLC releases. People who download C3 songs know that it's like downloading the official DLC. Well, not exactly like that, official DLC was obviously extremely polished, something only very few authors can and are willing to do, but our song have all that's needed so that when you play you don't notice much difference: animations, all instruments, all difficulties, etc.

 

Now, I am personally leaning toward releasing those songs without keys, however I full understand the position of some of our authors: we are C3, we release complete songs, that's one of the reasons why we have such a great community and following. The only reason I lean toward breaking this rule is: nobody will ever be able to author a pro keys chart for those songs without stems. That's it. Therefore, since we have no stems, I think it makes sense to release them. And if we ever get stems it will be like those Bon Jovi songs that got keys and harmonies upgrade when Harmonix added those in RB3.

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i don't know how you grossly misunderstood the post. you asked "there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard" right after farottone made a post saying that there are no expert authors willing to chart them

 

 

I was actually making that post right before Farottone made his. As soon as I clicked the submit button Farottone posted so thats why it seems stupid and out of my fuckin' mind to make something right after a post like that.

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The only reason I lean toward breaking this rule is: nobody will ever be able to author a pro keys chart for those songs without stems. That's it. Therefore, since we have no stems, I think it makes sense to release them. And if we ever get stems it will be like those Bon Jovi songs that got keys and harmonies upgrade when Harmonix added those in RB3.

 

If the keys can not be charted without the stems, then release the song without keys. As long as this only happens when there is no possible way to chart the keys part without the stems, I see no problem with it. I would much rather have the songs released, than have songs sitting around collecting dust because no one can chart the key part that no one can hear.

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I was actually making that post right before Farottone made his. As soon as I clicked the submit button Farottone posted so thats why it seems stupid and out of my fuckin' mind to make something right after a post like that.

 

The forums would've warned you and asked you if you wanted to revise your post if someone posted something before you got the chance to reply.

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I think how i always think of it is how rockband "Did". You have to mix Accuracy with "is this song going to be fun to play"

 

For example i do a lot of POP-ROCK charts and i find myself contatly putting keys where they should'nt i go through the mid i have available and do what i can, but stems are not for every song and songs w/out multitracks i have a lot of issues here, all i can say is work with the Community i know that its a "secret" the releases each week but perhaps have a closed testing of "said" song and see if it should have keys or not, sharing is caring.

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In regards to songs that have spurts of Keys and huge empty spaces,

 

I (Drums) play with my wife (Vocal,Keys) and she is not that great at keys. She mostly plays on Medium 5lane. Songs that have keys for only a few moments and huge spaces are not a problem for us. Alot of times if the keys are not that hard, she can do expert and gets excited because we can gold star a song together. There has been a couple songs that we have that will not even let you get to a 4x multiplier on Keys, and it does not diminish her enjoyment of that song.

 

I know we may be a special case, or in a small group that has someone who plays the lower difficulties on 5 lane keys, but just wanted to say that we do enjoy playing songs that only have sporadic keys.

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I think how i always think of it is how rockband "Did". You have to mix Accuracy with "is this song going to be fun to play"

 

I cringed a bit here, tbh. Accuracy trumps "fun" unless it's hyperaccuracy. Never 'add', only 'subtract', and only after careful consideration.

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I was actually making that post right before Farottone made his. As soon as I clicked the submit button Farottone posted so thats why it seems stupid and out of my fuckin' mind to make something right after a post like that.

 

The forums would've warned you and asked you if you wanted to revise your post if someone posted something before you got the chance to reply.

 

It happened immediately AS I pressed the submit button. I also had the post notifier thingy turned off.

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The beauty of discovering C3 and in particular customs like Elvis and 'The Fox' meant that Rock Band went from being a fun thing to suggest to something people were asking me when they could play it. When friends come to play Rock Band everyone's dying to get a turn and obviously I almost always have to filter out songs without Keys because you want as many people involved as possible. I felt like this was the case for the majority of Rock Band players with it being a social, group thing but I play it alone too and maybe that's the majority. I almost always get more enjoyment out of a song with all 5 instruments - 'The Fox' has been played almost double the amount of 'Gangnam Style' for example. In every case I'd prefer there to be SOMETHING to play on keys and accuracy doesn't really come into it - someone mentioned earlier Keys following Bass and I know having more songs like that would please me but that's just my two cents on it - but I certainly don't want to think we won't see some songs because of worries about accurate charting. I guess my tl;dr was group players tend to prefer to have something to do rather than not feel included, 'cus the keyboard gets the most attention being the 'new' toy in the set.

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I personally would like to see keys when at all possible, if it isn't too taxing for the charters, just to add to the realism- I don't care whether there are large gaps between the parts (e.g. on Harmonix's release of "Californication", where they keyboard doesn't show up until about 2 1/2 minutes in at least), because for the rest I can just rock out to the song. Or actually sing the vocals.

 

(Also, I only have a keyboard and playing bass/guitar on a keyboard can get quite taxing. Especially if you're trying to "strum" ridiculously fast.)

 

But that's only my opinion.

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As others have mentioned, if it's not possible to do a fully accurate chart, then don't release the keys.

 

I am curious, though. In cases where it's perhaps possible to chart a 5-lane version of the keys, but not possible to chart the pro keys version, would C3 be open to that route? It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I can say that the folks I play with almost always choose 5-lane rather than pro keys, so releasing only one of them could be a way to still keep some (most?) keys players happy without forcing the author to pull his/her hair out by charting pro keys.

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