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Discussion: "Buried" Keys/PK parts


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#21 Sideshow

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Posted July 29, 2014 - 02:36 AM

I also remember somebody saying The Zombies "Time of Season" would of been released if it werent for the Pro Keys.

There's nothing undoable about that - it's just hard.

OKAY I'LL DO IT ALREADY because harmonies.


No pressure man. I just thought this was one of those songs that should of been on the RB3 disc.

#22 questionmark

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Posted July 29, 2014 - 03:03 AM

I also remember somebody saying The Zombies "Time of Season" would of been released if it werent for the Pro Keys.

There's nothing undoable about that - it's just hard.

OKAY I'LL DO IT ALREADY because harmonies.


No pressure man. I just thought this was one of those songs that should of been on the RB3 disc.


Yes pressure! Lots of pressure! Respectful, appreciative, grateful pressure. I want that song!

#23 Colonel 32dll

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Posted July 29, 2014 - 12:46 PM

OKAY I'LL DO IT ALREADY because harmonies.

And there was much rejoicing!
Yay! :dance:

#24 mcatrn

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Posted July 29, 2014 - 07:28 PM

If C3 decides to remove this from future customs I personally will be ok with that, even happy if its preventing certain songs from being released.

this!


Double-this!


Triplet!


Quadr...tetra...sigh. Also this.

#25 titiln

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 03:54 AM

as someone that often plays and enjoys pro keys (on an actual keyboard with the pro adapter), i really wouldn't care if a song with the conditions described in the original post didn't have any key charts

#26 coolfeline

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 04:38 PM

If C3 decides to remove this from future customs I personally will be ok with that, even happy if its preventing certain songs from being released.

this!


Double-this!


Triplet!


Quadr...tetra...sigh. Also this.



No this.


I want keys even if it only has one part in the song and nothing else ( Live And Learn , etc. ) but considering the topic I would want keys no matter how major or minor it is in the song.

Hopefully we will get keys for C3 songs no matter what ( my friend who plays keys will be unbelievably happy ) and the harmonies project will make some songs ACTULLY full band ( I'm looking right at you The Final Countdown and Don't Stop Believing ( GO HARMONIES PROJECT!) . Right at ya. ).

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#27 TrojanNemo

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 04:51 PM

I think you and a few other posters have missed the point entirely.
We are not discussing "this song has Keys but they're hard and I don't want to chart them" or "going forward C3 songs won't have keys at all."
We are discussing "this song has Keys that can't be charted, and the options are release without Keys or don't release at all."

So your choice seems to be "if Keys can't be charted, don't release it at all." Is that what you're saying?

#28 Farottone

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 04:58 PM

We are discussing "this song has Keys that can't be charted, and the options are release without Keys or don't release at all."


Which by the way is our current stance. We are currently withholding a number of songs (not too many, but some of those very, very popular) because they are ready to hit playtesting but keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them. Just to make it clear to the other users, the question was then what should we do with those and with anything in the future fitting the description.

#29 coolfeline

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 05:02 PM

Ummmmmmmmmm. No but there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard? Is there? I'd say release but no keys ( i'm gonna' have a sad keys player for sure ).
I just wish we could have keys for every song with them , wouldn't you agree?

So remember I said release with no keys and maybe we're gonna' get some Genesis!

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#30 titiln

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 05:23 PM

Ummmmmmmmmm. No but there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard? Is there?

keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them.



#31 coolfeline

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 05:38 PM

Ummmmmmmmmm. No but there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard? Is there?

keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them.



Are you trying to say I should try or you are going to try? If you are going to try...

WE ARE FINALLY GETTING KEYS FOR THESE BABIES!

Then again I can always be wrong. Let's hope your that user willing to do so.

God bless the Earth.

EDIT: I just saw that you meant mine and Farottone's reasons are drastically different.

Oh well. Guess that means no Genesis. :ohdear:

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#32 titiln

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 06:34 PM

i don't know how you grossly misunderstood the post. you asked "there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard" right after farottone made a post saying that there are no expert authors willing to chart them

#33 Farottone

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 06:36 PM

i don't know how you grossly misunderstood the post.


You don't read the forums enough. :)

#34 Mr Wally

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 07:12 PM

i don't know how you grossly misunderstood the post.


You don't read the forums enough. :)

haha this made me chuckle, the OP was quite clear on what this discussion was about....and yet :what: lol

Crazycoolcat5, as PKsage and numerous people in this thread has mentioned, if the keys are an integral part of the song ala "Final Countdown", "Rocketman" C3 WILL <- read, chart the keys and I presume Genesis should fall into this category, or at least the ones I've heard, its just the songs where keys are either inaudible and/or pointless may not be charted going forward, that's it.

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#35 Farottone

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 07:14 PM

Crazycoolcat5, as PKsage and numerous people in this thread has mentioned, if the keys are an integral part of the song ala "Final Countdown", "Rocketman" C3 WILL <- read, chart the keys and I presume Genesis should fall into this category, or at least the ones I've heard, its just the songs where keys are either inaudible and/or pointless, that's it.


Yeah, I can't think of many Genesis songs, if any, that have buried piano parts.

#36 Kemiroch

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 07:16 PM

We are discussing "this song has Keys that can't be charted, and the options are release without Keys or don't release at all."


Which by the way is our current stance. We are currently withholding a number of songs (not too many, but some of those very, very popular) because they are ready to hit playtesting but keys are either a mess or we don't have expert authors that are willing to do them. Just to make it clear to the other users, the question was then what should we do with those and with anything in the future fitting the description.


I'm of the opinion that holding back a song for a feature that may never get added doesn't help anyone. Some way should be found to get them out to the rabid playerbase. A couple of off-the-top-of-my-head ideas:

-Release them as is. Probably not the best way as it would compromise the C3 standard.

-Release them as a 'beta test' or 'open source'. Perhaps this could help flush out a forum member who loves the song and could help add whatever is missing. Not the best plan either, for myriad reasons.

-Release them under a new line, something akin to funky's 'Rough Cuts' or an artist's 'bootleg' collection. Perhaps just in a sticky forum thread in 'Other Customs' even. This way they're done, no more messing around with outside of a miraculous 'From the Vault' release if something happens to come together later.

I would say the third option strikes me as the most reasonable. Of course, I wouldn't try to make songs for the Bootleg releases, but if something is floating in limbo for a certain length of time statute of limitations kicks in and it auto-bootlegs.

Just my thoughts. I'd rather have songs than not.

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#37 Colonel 32dll

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 07:23 PM

I'd rather have songs than not.

Agreed.

#38 Farottone

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 07:40 PM

I'm of the opinion that holding back a song for a feature that may never get added doesn't help anyone.


That's the reason we have started the dialogue. This is our second year, and some among us when we started this thought we probably wouldn't have made it past July 2013. We don't discuss download numbers but we actually are still going strong. Why have we managed to reach month #15 of our experience? Probably because we started with a goal: replicating the original experience of the Harmonix DLC releases. People who download C3 songs know that it's like downloading the official DLC. Well, not exactly like that, official DLC was obviously extremely polished, something only very few authors can and are willing to do, but our song have all that's needed so that when you play you don't notice much difference: animations, all instruments, all difficulties, etc.

Now, I am personally leaning toward releasing those songs without keys, however I full understand the position of some of our authors: we are C3, we release complete songs, that's one of the reasons why we have such a great community and following. The only reason I lean toward breaking this rule is: nobody will ever be able to author a pro keys chart for those songs without stems. That's it. Therefore, since we have no stems, I think it makes sense to release them. And if we ever get stems it will be like those Bon Jovi songs that got keys and harmonies upgrade when Harmonix added those in RB3.

#39 coolfeline

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 07:45 PM

i don't know how you grossly misunderstood the post. you asked "there's gotta' be someone who can chart stuff this hard" right after farottone made a post saying that there are no expert authors willing to chart them



I was actually making that post right before Farottone made his. As soon as I clicked the submit button Farottone posted so thats why it seems stupid and out of my fuckin' mind to make something right after a post like that.

I generally dislike myself.


#40 MaybeTowelie

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Posted July 30, 2014 - 10:17 PM

The only reason I lean toward breaking this rule is: nobody will ever be able to author a pro keys chart for those songs without stems. That's it. Therefore, since we have no stems, I think it makes sense to release them. And if we ever get stems it will be like those Bon Jovi songs that got keys and harmonies upgrade when Harmonix added those in RB3.


If the keys can not be charted without the stems, then release the song without keys. As long as this only happens when there is no possible way to chart the keys part without the stems, I see no problem with it. I would much rather have the songs released, than have songs sitting around collecting dust because no one can chart the key part that no one can hear.




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